---------- Original message ---------- Subject: Re: Why are you (still) using PowerPC-based Macs? Date: Freitag 22 Januar 2010N From: Dan <[email protected]> To: [email protected]
> At 9:08 PM +0100 1/21/2010, Mac User #330250 wrote: > >I've just made an old G3 B&W working again (it was wasting space and > >picking up dust for about two years or more) and it is now in my > >office. I've installed Tiger and it is just okay working > >with it, in other words: it is slow. > > Why? What did you do to it? My 300-MHz Smurf handles files just as > fast as my 1.5 GHz PB G4, and my housemate's x GHz AMD Windoze > machine. Safari displays pages almost as fast as they do too. Iffa > your Smurf is slow, then you messed something up. Might well be. I installed Tiger using my G4. I did all the updates and installed everything System Update was offering (including iTunes 9.0.2). I've then put the HDD into the G3 B&W and it booted fine and as far as I can see it runs all the software (I haven't tried iTunes yet and maybe I never will) without any errors or system hangs. Additional software is: Microsoft Office:Mac 2004 GIMP 2.6.6 OpenOffice.org 3.1.1 Scribus 1.3.5.1 and some additional (system) tools: Stuffit Expander 13.0.3 7zX 0.7.1 VLC 0.9.10 (the newer 1.0.3 requires Leopard...) Open XML File Format Converter 1.1.3 (for Office:Mac 2004) OnyX 1.8.5 muCommander 0.8.4 Carbon Copy Cloner 3.2.1 Adobe Reader 9.2 (I yet have to update to 9.3!) Bean 2.4.2 Smultron 3.1.2 (newest requires Leopard) 0xED 1.0.7 DOSBox 0.7.3 Burn 2.3 (the G3 build) the (mandatory) internet stuff: Mozilla Firefox 3.5.2 (as I'm writing this 3.6 is out) Camino 2.0.1 Flash Player 10.0.42.34 Shockwave Player 11.5.2.602 Little Snitch 2.1.4 (THIS may slow things down) Transmission 1.54 (newest requires Leopard or even Snow Leopard) TeamViewer 4.1.6886 (I'm occationally helping out friends) I'm also using some 3rd party drivers (kext, kernel extensions): ATIcellerator II 1.0.6b NTFS-3G 2004.04.04 with MacFUSE HPIJS 3.9.2 (updated HP printer drivers for CUPS, by the Linux Foundation) and the Wester Digital external HDD software for My Passport. I've skipped Windows Media Components for Quicktime 2.3.0.14, since the 350 MHz G3 won't be able to play WMV files anyway. Any hint on that? What should or should I not do to make it *feel* faster? When I say that it's slow I'm comparing it to my G4 Dual-800 which is feeling responsive. The G3 B&W 350 MHz lets me wait a lot, e.g. when I start typing I can see the letters on the screen one or two seconds later until it finished loading (the HDD is working a lot), thereafter it starts acting "normal" i.e. without delay. This is even so when it already finished loading = sitting there for some time waiting for me doing something with it. This starts right after boot-up when the login screen (for the password) is displayed. I type the password, and the stars "*" are displayed a second later, sometimes it also doesn't take my "Enter" key for confirmation and keeps me waiting to hit enter again. Don't get me wrong on this -- I'm very happy with my B&W. I love the idea that it is older than a decade and still being useful for me. I use it for writing texts and spreadsheets mainly, and for that it suffices for me. I have to say though that Word and Excel 2004 are a little bit faster than OpenOffice.org 3.1.1 (the latest) is. OpenOffice is just too big and slow, takes a minute or two to even start. Internet browsing feels a lot slower too compared to the Dual-QS. But that was expected. The speed is okay for what I do. Watching YouTube videos isn't a good idea though, as almost 23 out of 24 frames are skipped (subjective feeling, don't let me quote a reliable source on this!). > >Apparently Apple has finally dropped all support for Tiger. > > cite? > > All my Macs, that run System 7, Mac OS 8, Mac OS 9, Panther, and > Tiger, are still running. They didn't suddenly gak the other day. It's not that they would have stopped working. Why should an old system suddenly stop working? No. I meant that Tiger users don't get any more updates, especially security updates. And most newer software (take Smultron for example, a simple editor) doesn't support Tiger anymore. You may think "what's wrong using the older version?" You've got a point here. Actually, nothings wrong with that. It is just a fact. The only thing I don't feel comfortable with is using older browsers or older versions of Java and JavaScript, but also Adobe Reader and off course Flash Player. I'd also add Quicktime-like software like the VLC Video Player to this list. They've just fixed some serious bugs in Adobe Reader that did affect the Mac OS X version as well as the Windows and UNIX version. I don't recall reading, that possible exploints will be Windows-only. http://www.adobe.com/support/security/bulletins/apsb10-02.html I highly recommend using the newest software versions of Adobe Reader, any browser you may be using and of any media player you are watching video clips with -- provided you are recieving files to view/wotch from the internet and third parties. If you're just watching your home-made vacation video clips and if you're compiling your own PDFs out of your own documents -- well, then forget security updates. You're an island. > >I read so many postings here about people buying or working with > >Power Macs and G3/G4-Laptops. [...] But why? (Why Power Macs _and_ > >why Mac OS X?) > > PowerPC based Macs, both desktop and laptop *RUN*. With few > exceptions, they are VERY reliable. You give them a task and they DO > it. Almost forever. I am very certain that this is true. The PowerPC architecture was more robust than the newer Intel design is. Intels have a lot of legacy "features" to carry along, which doesn't make the design overall better. Also newer hardware is most likely more towards making it fast *now*, but not keep it running forever. I've seen a lot of Intel/AMD/... (x86 in general) computers die because of poor quality components and because of being driven too far towards its edge (e.g. overclocking by the manufactorer). Beware - I don't have a reliable source for what I just said either. So it is just my opinion, nothing more. As I've been writting in another message in this group I'm very new to the PowerPC experience. And I also stated that I like it a lot. I was just asking in general, what you all are going to do when the software that runs on these computers is left behind -- i.e. all newer version will no longer run on these great computers and you are literally left behind. > Intel based Macs... ROFL. Yea, the desktops have the lowest repair > rate in the intel-based industry. But that's not saying much - PPC > Macs were and are MUCH more reliable. And the MB and MBP... You > should see the file cabinets full of repair paperwork my clients have. I cannot comment this. Only, that a friend of mine has now his second Intel- based MacBook (Pro) -- the first one was a MacBook, the second is a MacBook Pro -- and both went to the repair service within the first 18 months. The MacBook Pro had a failty motherboard and the MacBook had a broken HDD. That said, I have also heard a lot of stories about broken power supplies in Power Macs. Well, I haven't had one so I guess I'm lucky. Other than that all Power Macs seem to be running without any faults. Good and reliable, I like it! > >All newer software will be for Mac OS X/Intel very soon. > > And you have an assumption that newer is better? LOL iTunes needs > a multi GHz computer to play an mp3 without making the rest of the > computer unusable, but QuickTime on OS 9 can do it on a 180-MHz > machine just fine. Yup. That's "better". No, that is not my assumption. What I was trying to say is that fixed is more secure than not fixed. And, that some software wasn't even there before, it might be new alltogether. And it will -most likely- not run on older hardware and/or older versions of Mac OS. This doesn't have to be cutting edge power computing stuff like a CPU intensive 3D animation with physics and so on. It may well just be a good editor that doesn't run on Tiger simply because its developer is using Snow Leopard (or newer then). So a Power Mac user is bound to use what is there already, and newer innovations -- even in the field of text editors -- is not available to him/her. And please be honest -- who will say "I don't need this newer and revised version, that has now [this and that] feature I could use?" Who will say "yes, I browse the world wide web, but it is okay for me that half the pages aren't displayed in my old browser version?" (Before you comment on this one: the situation is not so dramatic, I can assure you that more than 90% of all pages work fine on Mac OS X 10.0 and newer.) > >So why bother with the G3-G5 anyhow? > > A better question is why use the older OS releases? > > And what's the right tool for the job? > > A case on point: My clients have peripherals that don't work in > Leopard or Snow Leopard. Apple tells them to upgrade. Yea, right, > they're going to throw out $250K+ devices. It is more likely that > they'll switch to new PC hardware and run Windows 7 --- which > (almost) talks to those old devices just fine. (Almost = a i/o > throughput issue that makes Windows 7 go plaid, er BSOD. But that's > better than Mac OS X - where the devices don't work at all). > > At home, I think it's pretty stupid to dedicate a $1000+ computer to > play streaming radio and drive a scanner. I use a 180-MHz PM for > that. My main computer here is a 300 MHz Smurf. They get the job > done. I fully agree that it is very often the other way around. Why buy new equipement when the old one isn't even used half of what was initially planned? And why buy newer computers if they don't support the older equipement anymore? I'm with you on that. > >Using old browsers (with ahellofalot unfixed security flaws not yet > >discovered) will also make the situation worse. > > And which of those security flaws are actually exploited on the Mac? If a tree falls to the ground in the middle of a jungle and nobody ever saw it -- has the tree even fallen at all? I know of no security issue on the Mac. The last I've heard was when Leopard was brand new and ZIP files were manipulated (and sent out via E-Mail), installing some malware or deleting some files or whatever -- to be honest I just forgot about this one. But it was there -- and it was fixed quickly with a *security update*. Never say never. (While I do agree that other archtictures than mainstream (which is x86 for PCs and maybe something like ARM on Smartphones) are never the target for mainstream malware.) Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
