I can't comment on android phones since I've never used one, I used to have a old nokia with a t9 pad and talks and was just so impressed with how the iphone is accessible just out of the box you press the button on the front 3 times and that's it your good to go and I've been impressed with how accessible so much stuff on the phone is.
I know its probably going slightly off topic and I know its been talked about on list before , but I had to use the google code capture on a web site for the first time the other day, and their 'accessable audio capture' was a total joke I couldn't even hear a single letter I couldn't even tell you how many letters or if it was letters or words it was reading, and if that's googles outlook on accessibility then they have a seriously seriously long way to go, they can't of even tried it themselves as it is in my opinion totally unusable and demonstrates their commitment to accessibility., sorry rant over but it was crazy how bad it was Paul lemm -----Original Message----- From: Gamers [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Dakotah Rickard Sent: 11 January 2013 18:24 To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Good iPhone games for Voiceover user It may be that Google catches up with apple in terms of accessibility for their mainline apps, and I'm glad that you are having good luck with apps you've installed from the Goog Store, but the sad and simple fact is that there are lots of accessibility holes in the basic architecture of the Android framework that will need to be fixed before it is accessible in the same way that the IOS framework is accessible. Let me put it to you this way. There are a lot of apps, both on Android OS and IOS that are inaccessible, but there are more apps on IOS that are accessible just because the Apple framework is accessible. What I mean is that the app maker didn't have to sit there and try to make their product Voiceover compliant. That's why, if you go on AppleVis, you'll find a lot of apps that are labeled as workable if you can tolerate a bit of confusion or put in a bit of work. In the Android framework, as I understand it, accessible is something which must be created in the apps. The apps aren't, by nature, accessible until someone does something to make them less so. True, in both systems, a developer can very easily cut corners which make apps inaccessible, but the Apple framework tends toward making apps at least partially accessible, just because of its nature and setup. I want to put this forward as a thought about Google. The Apple maps app is more than accessible, even if it's a bit confusing from time to time, but it works. I can read maps on my phone, which, let me tell you, is a huge deal for me. The google maps app, basically it isn't worth putting on, because it sucks in terms of accessibility. The Dropbox app is accessible. Google drive isn't. Safari is accessible, and though I haven't tried Google Chrome because I'm more than pleased with Safari, I've heard that it doesn't do as good a job in terms of accessibility. The GMail app is reasonable, but it's a bit confusing from time to time, whereas the built-in mail app does the same job and is much more manageable. Basically, if Google doesn't take the time and put in the effort to make apps accessible on devices which actively promote good accessibility, I don't have a great deal of faith that they're going to clean up the mess they've made of the accessibility in their own devices. Google just doesn't place accessibility at as high of a priority as does Apple, so even if the phone is eventually accessible, even if the Nexus does gain accessibility features after a couple of years, by that point, you're probably already going to at least be considering whether or not you want a new phone, while those who bought an IOS device are seeing new and improved accessibility features with each major update. Frankly, I make myself wonder from time to time. I used to highly dislike Apple, and there are still plenty of things about their strategies that I am less fond of. I think that their marketing plan is based on hyping little details and concealing larger ones to wow the launch crowd, which I dislike. I think that they charge too much for device repairs and warranties. I think that they might, eventually, get snowed under by the simply massive amount of Android devices. But I love, and I'll say it again, love the fact that having an iPhone has given me independence. I can buy a GPS app that does me a little better in terms of accessibility and features that are specific to the needs of a visually impaired person, but frankly I don't see much of a need, because what's already there is pretty darn good. Android is a risk that might pay off really nicely, but IOS is an investment in a steady product that is going to appreciate over time with that self same steadiness. I know this message has been long, and I also know that I'm nothing in terms of knowledge on physical Android products, but I hope that it is helpful and concise. Good luck, and good hunting. Signed: Dakotah Rickard On 1/7/13, Valiant8086 <valiant8...@lavabit.com> wrote: > Hi. > I'd go with Android, but my reasons don't line up with everyone Else's. > > 1. So you can write games for me to play on mine. > > 2. I got mine because I can change the speech. I can't understand any > of the voices available on iOS. I have much better luck with ESpeak > with my hearing problem. > > 3. I also got mine because of a physical keyboard, but that won't > apply to the Nexus 4. > > 4. Not sure where folks are coming from that say you'd only be able to > use Android as a basic phone. I have many apps on mine, from Zello to > Voxer to HayTell and Skype and Dropbox and mos of them work flawlessly > in terms of accessibility even on Android 4.0.4, which is what I use. > > 5. I don't think most of the other commenters have tried 4.2 yet. I > haven't either myself, but it appears to work pretty well. If it isn't > on the level of iOS yet, which it isn't in some cases, it probably > will be before too long. > > 6. The fragmentation doesn't really apply to the Google Nexus 4 > because that's Google's phone that they will be loading the Stock rom > (another benefit to the Nexus 4) on it to be able to show other > manufacturers how Android is supposed to work. It should be the first > to see updates for at least a couple more years to come, and if it > isn't, it will be easy to grab a mod and install it on this phone as > Google most likely doesn't lock it down. Although, buy it unlocked, > don't let AT&T sell you anything like I did, they'll do all sorts of > stupid things to try and control you just like iOS but worse. For > instance I'm pretty sure my Android phone has the gps chip disabled > for 3rd party apps, only works for the AT&T navigator program that > came with it. Ask me if that makes me want to slap some buttheads around. > > 7. If you don't like it you can tweak it. I've been through probably > 10 home screens and am currently using one that does seem to work > reasonably well. Not to mention you could write a better one than > everyone else's, in your opinion, and sell it for me to get on mine. > > 8. Truth be told, if I could have switched to ESpeak or just the > right alternative synthesizer on iOS, I probably would have not tried Android. > I would have gotten a keyboard case for the phone, so the iOS devices > not having a keyboard isn't much of a show stopper for me, it's those > voices. Aaarrrggg!!! > > 9. My phone seems to be a lot faster than even my iPod touch 5g, which > is lesser a cpu than that on the iPhone 5, but not by too awful much > > 10. You can swipe on android 4.2, though people seem too willing to > just do that and not use explore by touch. on iOS I get used to the > app's layout and don't need to flick on screens that I'm used to very often. > On my Android phone I have to explore by touch though, because 4.0.4 > doesn't have the gestures. > > 11. You can enable accessibility on android in the setup screen by > pressing the screen with two fingers a suitable distance apart and > holding for a few seconds until it responds with prmpts. May need to > press the power button first. This is also available while on the menu > that's pulled up by the power button when the phone is running. On > some devices you can draw a square on the screen with a finger to enable it. > Not as 1 2 3-ish as tripple click home, which does work out of the box > now unlike what someone said earlier on, but it's getting there. > > 12. Here's a possible con. My on screen keyboard is harder to use on > my phone than it is on iOS. Sometimes I can slide the finger across > the keyboard and it may not speak a certan letter as I go over it, or > maybe two letters, then all of a sudden it'll speak the next one over. > For instance trying to find l let's say I touch j, I slide to the > right, nothing, slide to the right, l. Slide to the left, k. It seems > to be easier if I try not to stop sliding, and I have to keep my > finger gentle on the screen. Mostly I try extra hard to land on the > right button, which I have been relatively successful at in the little > I have used my on screen keyboard what with me having a physical one > on my particular phone. > > 13. Android is newer than iOS, and accessibility is a little newer > than Voiceover on iOS, at least as far as I know it is. I think they > have some catching up to do, but they're newer than iOS, so still have > a right to be a little behind. Though if you do hit issues, that won't > matter to you when you can't do something on your phone that they > could do on iOS. > > 14. I don't know if this is fixed in 4.2, but on Android, if you touch > a button, and slide away from it you can try to tap it, and you'll not > tap the button, but instead tap the screen where there isn't anything > to tap, or on another button if you happen to have slid to one, naturally. > On iOS, you can touch a button, then slide all over the screen, and as > long as you don't land on another button, double tapping the screen > will issue a tap on the button you touched in the first place. This > means that if you're trying to explore the screen and land on the > button you want but accidentally move past it a bit so that you get > that dink dink dink noise, double tapping will still hit that button > without requiring you to find the button again. In the case of my > android phone, you have to hit the button right on. If you move past > it you won't tap the button, but just will tap the screen in the > middle of nowhere. And on android there's not really any indication > that you're exploring empty space, so that's another issue. But I > can't sy that this won't be fixed in the very next version. Can't also > say that it will, but I think some of the improvements since 4.0.4 to 4.2 and 4.2.1 have to mean something. > > > > > Sent with Thunderbird 16.0.1 Portable > On 1/6/2013 6:07 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: >> Hi Dark, >> >> True enough. It all sounds good. The only problem for me is that the >> Apple iPhone 5 costs more than double the cost of a Google Nexus 4, >> and one thing I do not like about the iPhone is that the touchscreen >> is very small. The Nexus 4 has nearly double the room to move your >> fingers around which I find much more suited to my needs. >> >> So while the Apple iPhone seems to be the better option for games an >> Android solution like the Nexus 4 is the more cost effective solution >> for the VI user. I've had a bit of experience with my wife's Samsung >> Galaxy S3, and I find the accessibility on Ice Cream Sandwich >> acceptable for a VI user for handling the basics of web browsing with >> Firefox, managing contacts, doing texting, etc. I hear the Nexus 4, >> which comes with Jellybean 4.2, is even better yet so I'm strongly >> thinking of going for an Android phone just to save on the initial >> investment costs of an iPhone. >> >> >> On 1/6/13, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote: >>> Well tom the game is amazingly complex and detailed and I'd highly >>> recommend >>> >>> it, indeed it's one of the most complex rpg/stratogy games I've ever >>> played >>> >>> since everything works as much through story as it does through pure >>> resource management. For someone like yourself who appreciates >>> mythology i think you'd really enjoy the game. >>> >>> Plus then there are others. Lost cities is a fun cardgame to play >>> with people when you have time, and the choiceofgames play very well >>> as gamebooks. I've not investigated too much else myself yet, but a >>> lot more is >>> >>> around too. >>> >>> Beware the grue! >>> >>> Dark. >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the >> list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _______________ Use the link below to report this message as spam. >> https://lavabit.com/apps/teacher?sig=3935835&key=2035815083 >> _____________________________________________________________________ >> _______________ > > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the > list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the > list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://mail.audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
