Dear Kevin and all...
For various theoretical and experimentally tested reasons, I have come to
believe that biomass is unstable relative to the products of "autopyrolysis".
Bone dry wood in a closed container, once initiated, will Autopyrolyse to some
CO2 and H2O and a number of other vapor species. A too simple equation could be
C H1.4 O 0.6 (woody biomass) ==> 0.4C(charcoal) + 0.6 CO2 + 0.7H2. Delta Hr =
127 kJ/mole
483. 160.
196. KJ/mole
And is exothermic. This would be a (4.8/23) yield of charcoal
Coal is approximately "CH". The similar equation is
CH (coal) ===> C (coke) + 1/2 H2. Delta Hr = 0 (+\_ 15%, the accuracy of
the bomb calorimeter)
540. 400. 140
--------
So the "underground coal fire " is really a continuation of the coal making
process, and not a fire at all, since there is no way to get oxygen underground.
MORE TO FOLLOW!
Tom Reed
Dr Thomas B Reed
President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
www.Woodgas.com
On Feb 15, 2011, at 6:49 AM, "Kevin" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dear GF
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: GF
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 2:44 AM
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] 300 Megawatt Power Plant
>
> kevin.
> I understand there are mines that have caught fire underground by accident in
> the 1950's and are still burning with the oxygen being produced by FT
> reactions at the seat of the fire.
> GF
>
> # Very true!! It is easy to set a mine fire, under the right conditions.
> There is no question that FT reactions work, and there is no question that
> such accidental underground coalfield fires have occurred in coalfields that
> have been mined. From what I can see, (and please correct me if I am wrong):
>
> 1: Such accidental underground coalfield fires are uncontrollable.
> 2: Such accidental underground coalfield fires can cause very significant
> "surface damage", in terms of subsidence, or gas emanations that can make
> nearby communities uninhabitable
> 3: Such accidental underground coalfield fires do not produce a consistent
> gas, of value either for combustion in a process, or for utiligation in a
> process.
> 4: Such accidental underground coalfield fires are generally considered to be
> a disaster in the area where they occur.
> 5: Such accidental underground coalfield fires have never been used to
> economic advantage
> 6: Such accidental underground coalfield fires are totally uncomparable to
> "underground gasification projects intended to produce a fuel gas or
> synthesis gas for economic benefit."
> 7: The Swan Hills Website contains a number of misleading statements that
> seem to infer that their proposed project is equivalent to "gasification",
> and that the relatively long history of "gasification" can be used to show
> there project is technically feasible. For example, at
> http://swanhills-synfuels.com/iscg/overview/ we see:
> Gasification History: Gasification was first developed in the 1800s and has
> been used commercially throughout the world for more than 100 years. A
> variety of industries have utilized the technology including chemical
> production, fertilizer manufacturing, and electrical power generation. Today,
> the majority of the operating gasification plants worldwide are surface
> gasification plants designed to produce chemicals, fuels, electricity, and
> fertilizers.
>
> It then goes on to equate "Gasification" with "In-Situ Coal Gasification "
> (ISCG)) in a misleading manner:
> "How does Gasification work? Feedstock (for ISCG it is deep coal) is exposed
> to high temperature and high pressure. In the presence of steam at these
> conditions a series of chemical reactions occur which convert the feedstock
> into syngas."
> This would tend to suggest that the gas product from ISGC is equivalent to
> the quality and production from a "surface gasification plant." The
> Websiteite seems to gloss over the important differences, and seems to
> overlook technical challenges that lie ahead for them. The Website contains a
> number of statements which could be termed "forward looking."
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin Chisholm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin <[email protected]>
> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <[email protected]>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 10:42 pm
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] 300 Megawatt Power Plant
>
> Dear GF
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: GF
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 5:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] 300 Megawatt Power Plant
>
> What happens to the chlorine component in the underground reaction.
> when using salt water. Chlorine is really unfriendly to metals including
> stainless steel.
> what sort of conduit is to be used for conducting the hot product to the
> surface for refinement?
>
> # Very gfood question!! The presence of chlorine in a starved oxygen
> combustion environment is likely to generate an environmental disaster, with
> the chlorinated hydrocarbons that that will almost certainly result.
>
> # Underground gasification of coal is a really neat concept, but as far as I
> know it doesn't work. See:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_coal_gasification Many people in
> many places have spent many dollars trying to get it to work. After many
> tests, there does not appear to be a single commercially successful
> Underground Coal Gasification project now, or in the past.
>
> # See their Website at http://swanhills-synfuels.com/ On their FAQ page,
> http://swanhills-synfuels.com/iscg/faq/, they state:
> "Gasification can compete effectively in high-cost energy environments." This
> seems to say a lot.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin Chisholm
>
> GF
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henri Naths <[email protected]>
> To: [email protected]
> Sent: Mon, Feb 14, 2011 1:54 pm
> Subject: [Gasification] 300 Megawatt Power Plant
>
>
> Dear list and all
> I believe there some techincal issues involved with this gasification
> process. All comments are appreciated.
> Thanks
> Henri
>
>
> $1.5 Billion Swan Hills Synfuels Project
> was announced by the Alberta Government. This project will manufacture
> clean synthetic gas from
> deep coal deposits to fuel a new 300 Megawatt Power Plant to be built at
> Whitecourt. This transformative project
> is a whole new way to generate clean electricity, using Alberta's vast, deep
> stranded coal reserves.
> Whitecourt will have the Province's first clean power source !
> In July 2010 Town Council approved the next 20 acre Phase of the Hilltop
> Industrial area. Infrastructure work will commence immediately in order to
> have lots available for early spring 2011 to support the growth form the
> above project. In addition Pembina Pipelines announced the final approval of
> their NIPISI & MITSUE pipeline projects in the Judy Creek area. They are
> expected to provide 1,000 short term construction jobs.
>
> In situ coal is converted into a gas by piping saline water and pure oxygen
> down an injection well.
> The resulting combustion, plus the steam created by it, converts the coal
> into gas that flows up a production well to a surface gas-separation plant.
> The project will drill about 20 pairs of injection and production wells.
> “The gas is taken to a plant where the CO2 is removed,” said Shaigec.
> (managing director for Swanhills Synfuels )
> “We then have finished syngas, that is dispatched to a pipeline and then to
> the generator.”
> This low-carbon gas will be used to fuel a new 300 MW power plant to be built
> near Whitecourt, Alberta.
> Gasification History
>
> Gasification was first developed in the 1800s and has been used commercially
> throughout the world for more than 100 years. A variety of industries have
> utilized the technology including chemical production, fertilizer
> manufacturing, and electrical power generation. Today, the majority of the
> operating gasification plants worldwide are surface gasification plants
> designed to produce chemicals, fuels, electricity, and fertilizers.
> Gasification Market
>
> As of 2008, there were 420 gasifiers at 140 facilities in operation globally,
> the majority of these being surface gasification plants (source – GTC). World
> gasification capacity is projected to grow by more than 70% by 2015 with much
> of the growth occurring in Asia (source – GTC). A number of factors
> contribute to a growing interest in gasification, including volatile oil and
> natural gas prices, more stringent environmental regulations, and a growing
> consensus that CO2 management should be required in power generation and
> energy production.
> How does Gasification work?
>
> Feedstock (for ISCG it is deep coal) is exposed to high temperature and high
> pressure. In the presence of steam at these conditions a series of chemical
> reactions occur which convert the feedstock into syngas.
> In the case of ISCG, this chemical conversion of the deep coal happens in
> place in its original seam. The resultant syngas created consists primarily
> of hydrogen, methane, carbon dioxide, and carbon monoxide.
> To create this chemical conversion, two wells are drilled into the deep coal
> seam. A horizontal injection well is used to introduce oxygen and water into
> the seam; the oxygen supports a limited and controlled amount of combustion,
> raising the temperature of the coal and boiling the water to generate steam.
> The naturally existing deep underground pressure, along with the elevated
> coal temperature and the presence of steam, together form the right
> conditions to gasify the coal. The vertical production well is used to
> conduct the raw syngas to the surface. Char and ash, which are remnants of
> the original coal, remain deep underground.
> Figure 1. ISCG Well Pair Schematic
>
> The coal seam for ISCG development at the Swan Hills Synfuels site is 1400 m
> beneath the surface, approximately 800 m below the Base of Groundwater
> Protection (depth limit of fresh groundwater – below this depth, groundwater
> is saline), eliminating potential for fresh groundwater contamination. Saline
> water is used for injection into the coal seam through the horizontal well,
> virtually eliminating the need for fresh water in the ISCG process.
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