Has anyone try d Canola Or rape Straw As feedstock Pelletized Or?? Appre Thanx A Question put to me by Alberta Canada Farmer
On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Wayne hipkin <[email protected]> wrote: > Recent two piston ecomotors ?are under >> fast developments which combined with GEK gasifier , operating like viking >> well proven can make possible as practical ?small energy genertion with low >> investments HI Can I study this more indepth The two piston ecomoters?? >> Thanks guys Wayne > > On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 8:04 AM, > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. effect of steam on tar and soot production during pyrolysis? >> (jim mason) >> 2. Re: effect of steam on tar and soot production during >> pyrolysis? (Greg Manning) >> 3. Re: effect of steam on tar and soot production during >> pyrolysis? (Pannirselvam P.V) >> 4. Re: effect of steam on tar and soot production during >> pyrolysis? (Greg Manning) >> 5. Sheet metal design and prototyping (Thomas Reed) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 19:05:15 -0700 >> From: jim mason <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production >> during pyrolysis? >> Message-ID: >> <CAB5Uy2z8D2YEkXQdQZ=q9us9gennizyz4_4uj2_-m8as-hi...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less >> issues to deal with in filtering, here's a new question. >> >> does anyone know where to look for experimental results on the impacts >> of increased steam in pyrolysis environments? my hunch is that >> increased steam will lessen the production of PAHs and general double >> carbon bonded refractory tars. we know we can do this by reducing >> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help >> with this? >> >> the literature shows a marked decrease in soot production in >> combustion environments where there is high steam. steam apparently >> interrupts the agglomeration on the PAH nucleus. thus to the degree >> we can maintain adequate temps, steam is helping us with soot >> reduction. >> >> but what about during pyrolysis? does it reduce PAH production? do >> it have other marked effects on the type of tars make? in general, >> are there wins to be had with steam in pyrolysis that make things >> meaningfully easier to deal with downstream? >> >> i'm about at the end of what i can do on temp control during >> pyrolysis. i'm hoping there is another route to engage to continue >> improving the outputs of the pyrolysis stage. >> >> j >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> Jim Mason >> Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com >> Current Projects: >> ?? - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com >> ?? - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race: www.escapefromberkeley.com >> ?? - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs >> ?? - Shipyard Announce list: >> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 21:46:17 -0500 >> From: Greg Manning <[email protected]> >> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification >> <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production >> during pyrolysis? >> Message-ID: >> <cah4esnqzwf0prcsiac8rf75bafsygqacc6dcsn9krsosxmz...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> Greetings List. >> >> Jim, >> >> There are many ways to improve all "sections" (used loosely) within a >> downdraft gasifier, however IMO, steam in biomass is NOT one of them, >> Coal on the otherhand is the opposite. >> >> Attempting to control the reaction temperature should only be done >> within the design of the gasifier, for it's intended feedstock, any >> other methods, simply put..... fail. >> >> Design is paramount, get it right in the first place (aliken to the >> foundation of a house) once the design is right, everything else runs >> correct (level plumb and true). >> >> Greg Manning >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 9:05 PM, jim mason <[email protected]> wrote: >>> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less >> >> <snip> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 00:35:08 -0300 >> From: "Pannirselvam P.V" <[email protected]> >> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification >> <[email protected]> >> Cc: Mark Nickelo Blanco <[email protected]>, Rajesh sk >> <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production >> during pyrolysis? >> Message-ID: >> <cadw81mdukx93zg9ylf88ydrdpdjdfsb9b0jdd05u0bkwqzn...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >> >> Dear Jim >> >> Both the pyrolyis and steam gasification depends mostly on the >> temperture >> the temperture higher than 1000 C , can accelerate more the water gas >> shift reaction thus into more hydrogen and co2 , and alos the co2 >> decomposition leading to more C0 ,shifting the equilibrium leading to the >> gas with less co2 . Thus steam reforming into hydogen rich syn gas is >> favoured along with methan formation, less soot , tar production needing >> less , air , thus less n2 in the the gas output >> >> in this case of high temperture , pyrolyis is not limiting factor , but >> steam reforming is critical. >> >> Low temperature pyrolysis can lead to tar, char fines PAH, thus optium , >> not only the steam ,but also the the biomass:Air :steam are important >> parameters. >> >> One of our research group project collaborator Dr.Rajessh has done , >> not experimental study , but modeling simulation and optimization of these >> varibables as the Phd thesis .His email .is [email protected] also has >> more than international publications , he is presenetly working Pos doctrate >> research regarding several vital question you have made here . >> >> Even for us who make model , the role of steam in pyrolysis is not very >> clear.The steam , it products , c02 , can bring down very rapidly the >> pyrolysis temperature , then there is problem of maintain steady >> temperatures . >> >> In this respect , the two satge Denmak Viking gasifier has two stges >> :pyrolysis , steam gasification pliot plant are very well demonstrated , >> in which the engine exhaust are used to maintain the tempertaure in >> pyrlolysis as in GEK , the hot air and steam are recoverd from gasifier. >> Surley there are experimental published work is available >> http://www.bgg.mek.dtu.dk/Publications.aspxot >> >> Not only steam air ratio, but how this can be used are important points , >> realy we do not have answer. >> >> if you wish to use steam in pyrolysis , this need to be the superheated one >> , as superheated steam is well proved to be good for combustion , this can >> help cracking Carbon carbon bonds, tars etc. >> >> Experimental results are lacking but you can serach several patents,where >> you can surely find the correct answer. >> >> Opensource google , several sites make possible very quick search abou the >> same >> >> >> GeK gasifier design is ok , there is an good scope to do operacional >> research to optimize , minimize fuel consumption , make goodquality gas , >> improve overall energy efficienmcy.Recent two piston ecomotors are under >> fast developments which combined with GEK gasifier , operating like viking >> well proven can make possible as practical small energy genertion with low >> investments >> >> As you have open mind and open source ecobusiness model , making >> money from biomass waste can be reality , an proven very soon , yet now >> is an dream for many not an economicaly viable business, but technicaly >> feasible as your well made GEK gasifier working demonstrated >> >> Wish you all the sucess and thank you for your open minded sharing >> information of technical information with our list, I am happy to see You >> as an example and good model of other business venture bioenergy making >> private company to share not only the problems , but also share several >> important technical solution with open mind along with this list members, >> eventhough top secret, stat of art technology one can keep awy from the >> list >> >> Welcome you to bring here the problems and the real isseu and I am sure >> good way will be shown by several experts >> >> Yours truely >> Pannirselvam P.V >> >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:05 PM, jim mason <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less >>> issues to deal with in filtering, here's a new question. >>> >>> does anyone know where to look for experimental results on the impacts >>> of increased steam in pyrolysis environments? my hunch is that >>> increased steam will lessen the production of PAHs and general double >>> carbon bonded refractory tars. we know we can do this by reducing >>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help >>> with this? >>> >>> the literature shows a marked decrease in soot production in >>> combustion environments where there is high steam. steam apparently >>> interrupts the agglomeration on the PAH nucleus. thus to the degree >>> we can maintain adequate temps, steam is helping us with soot >>> reduction. >>> >>> but what about during pyrolysis? does it reduce PAH production? do >>> it have other marked effects on the type of tars make? in general, >>> are there wins to be had with steam in pyrolysis that make things >>> meaningfully easier to deal with downstream? >>> >>> i'm about at the end of what i can do on temp control during >>> pyrolysis. i'm hoping there is another route to engage to continue >>> improving the outputs of the pyrolysis stage. >>> >>> j >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Jim Mason >>> Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com >>> Current Projects: >>> - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com >>> - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race: >>> www.escapefromberkeley.com >>> - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs >>> - Shipyard Announce list: >>> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gasification mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: >>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> ************************************************ >> P.V.PANNIRSELVAM >> ASSOCIATE . PROF. >> Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator >> Computer aided Cost engineering >> >> DEQ ? Departamento de Engenharia Qu?mica >> CT ? Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova ? Natal/RN >> Campus Universit?rio. CEP: 59.072-970 >> North East,Brazil >> ******************************************* >> https://sites.google.com/a/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br/sites/ >> and >> http://ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/ >> >> >> Fone ;Office >> 84 3215-3769 , Ramal 210 >> Home : 84 3217-1557 >> >> Mobile :558488145083 >> >> Email: >> [email protected] >> [email protected] >> [email protected] >> [email protected] >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110808/f79e905c/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 4 >> Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 05:16:01 -0500 >> From: Greg Manning <[email protected]> >> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification >> <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] effect of steam on tar and soot production >> during pyrolysis? >> Message-ID: >> <CAH4eSNrVNreHa+y6sSVqNVtiyFH0g=spwkoid9u0tja9suw...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 >> >> Greetings List, Jim, Pannirselvam. >> >> I now re-read your initial post, and wonder quoting you.. >> >> Quote: "we know we can do this by reducing >>>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help >>>> with this?" < End Quote: >> >> Reducing Pyrolysis Temperature ????? this is exactly where tars and >> PAH's are created in the first place. >> >> Sorry Jim, I'll back out of this conversation now, as we are in two >> different worlds as to what makes a gasifier work correctly. >> >> Greg Manning >> >> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 10:35 PM, Pannirselvam P.V <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> ?Dear Jim >>> ? ?Both the pyrolyis and steam gasification ?depends mostly ?on the >>> temperture >>> the ?temperture higher than ?1000 C , can ? accelerate ?more the ?water gas >>> ?shift reaction thus ?into more ? hydrogen and co2 , and alos the ?co2 >>> ?decomposition ?leading to more C0 ,shifting ?the equilibrium leading to the >>> gas with ?less co2 . Thus ?steam reforming into hydogen rich syn gas is >>> favoured along with methan formation, less soot , tar production needing >>> less , air , thus less n2 in the the gas output >>> ? in this case of high temperture , pyrolyis is not limiting factor , but >>> steam reforming ?is critical. >>> Low ?temperature ?pyrolysis can lead to tar, char fines PAH, thus optium , >>> not only the steam ,but also the the biomass:Air :steam ?are important >>> parameters. >>> ? One of our ?research group ?project collaborator ?Dr.Rajessh ?has done , >>> not experimental ?study , but modeling simulation and optimization of ?these >>> varibables as ?the Phd thesis .His email .is [email protected] also has >>> more than international publications , he is presenetly working Pos doctrate >>> research ?regarding several ?vital question you have ?made here . >>> ? Even for us ?who make model ?, the role of steam in pyrolysis is not ?very >>> clear.The steam , it products , c02 ?, can bring down very ?rapidly the >>> pyrolysis temperature , then there is problem of maintain steady >>> temperatures . >>> ? ? In this respect , the two satge ?Denmak ?Viking ?gasifier ?has two stges >>> :pyrolysis , steam gasification pliot plant are ?very ?well demonstrated ?, >>> in which the engine exhaust are used to maintain the tempertaure ?in >>> pyrlolysis as in GEK , the hot air and steam are recoverd from gasifier. >>> Surley there are ?experimental ?published work ?is available >>> http://www.bgg.mek.dtu.dk/Publications.aspxot >>> Not only steam air ?ratio, but ?how ?this can be used are important points , >>> realy ?we do not have ?answer. >>> if you wish to use ?steam in pyrolysis , this need to be the superheated one >>> , as superheated ?steam is well proved to be ?good for combustion , this can >>> help cracking ?Carbon carbon bonds, tars etc. >>> Experimental results ?are lacking but you can serach several patents,where >>> you ?can surely find the correct answer. >>> Opensource google , several sites make possible very quick search ?abou the >>> same >>> >>> ? GeK gasifier design is ok , there is an good scope to do operacional >>> research ?to optimize ?, minimize fuel consumption , make goodquality gas , >>> improve overall energy efficienmcy.Recent two piston ecomotors ?are under >>> fast developments which combined with GEK gasifier , operating like viking >>> well proven can make possible as practical ?small energy genertion with low >>> investments >>> ? ? ? ?As you have ?open mind ?and open source ?ecobusiness model , making >>> ?money from biomass waste can be reality , an proven ?very soon , yet ?now >>> is an dream for many not an economicaly viable business, but technicaly >>> feasible ?as your well made GEK gasifier working demonstrated >>> ? ?Wish you all the sucess and thank you for your open minded ?sharing >>> information ?of technical information ?with our list, I am happy ?to see You >>> as an example and good model of other business ?venture bioenergy making >>> ?private ?company ?to share not only the problems , but also ?share ?several >>> important technical solution ?with open mind along with this ?list members, >>> eventhough top secret, stat of art technology one ?can keep awy from the >>> list >>> Welcome you to bring here the problems and the real?isseu?and I ?am sure >>> ?good way ?will be shown by several experts >>> Yours truely >>> Pannirselvam P.V >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 11:05 PM, jim mason <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> on the road to reducing problems in the reactor so there are less >>>> issues to deal with in filtering, here's a new question. >>>> >>>> does anyone know where to look for experimental results on the impacts >>>> of increased steam in pyrolysis environments? ? my hunch is that >>>> increased steam will lessen the production of PAHs and general double >>>> carbon bonded refractory tars. ?we know we can do this by reducing >>>> pyrolysis temp and slowing the ramp rate, but will steam also help >>>> with this? >>>> >>>> the literature shows a marked decrease in soot production in >>>> combustion environments where there is high steam. ?steam apparently >>>> interrupts the agglomeration on the PAH nucleus. ?thus to the degree >>>> we can maintain adequate temps, steam is helping us with soot >>>> reduction. >>>> >>>> but what about during pyrolysis? ?does it reduce PAH production? ?do >>>> it have other marked effects on the type of tars make? ?in general, >>>> are there wins to be had with steam in pyrolysis that make things >>>> meaningfully easier to deal with downstream? >>>> >>>> i'm about at the end of what i can do on temp control during >>>> pyrolysis. ?i'm hoping there is another route to engage to continue >>>> improving the outputs of the pyrolysis stage. >>>> >>>> j >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>> Jim Mason >>>> Website: http://www.whatiamupto.com >>>> Current Projects: >>>> ?? - Gasifier Experimenters Kit (the GEK): http://www.gekgasifier.com >>>> ?? - Escape from Berkeley alt fuels vehicle race: >>>> www.escapefromberkeley.com >>>> ?? - ALL Power Labs on Twitter: http://twitter.com/allpowerlabs >>>> ?? - Shipyard Announce list: >>>> http://lists.spaceship.com/listinfo.cgi/icp-spaceship.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Gasification mailing list >>>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>>> >>>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >>>> >>>> for more Gasifiers, ?News and Information see our web site: >>>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ************************************************ >>> P.V.PANNIRSELVAM >>> ASSOCIATE . PROF. >>> Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator >>> Computer aided? Cost engineering >>> >>> DEQ ? Departamento de Engenharia Qu?mica >>> CT ? Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova ? Natal/RN >>> Campus Universit?rio. CEP: 59.072-970 >>> North East,Brazil >>> ******************************************* >>> https://sites.google.com/a/biomassa.eq.ufrn.br/sites/ >>> ?and >>> http://ecosyseng.wetpaint.com/ >>> >>> >>> Fone ;Office >>> 84 3215-3769 ,? Ramal 210 >>> Home : 84 3217-1557 >>> >>> Mobile :558488145083 >>> >>> Email: >>> [email protected] >>> [email protected] >>> [email protected] >>> [email protected] >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gasification mailing list >>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >>> [email protected] >>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >>> >>> for more Gasifiers, ?News and Information see our web site: >>> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> ?Regards, >> >> Greg Manning, >> Brandon, Manitoba, Canada >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Sun, 7 Aug 2011 16:15:32 -0400 >> From: Thomas Reed <[email protected]> >> To: STOVES <[email protected]>, Discussion of >> biomass pyrolysis and gasification >> <[email protected]>, Shivayam Ellis >> <[email protected]>, Agua Das <[email protected]>, Paul >> Anderson <[email protected]>, William Ayres <[email protected]>, >> Michael Antal <[email protected]>, Julia Hasty >> <[email protected]>, >> Art Krenzel <[email protected]>, Art Lilley <[email protected]> >> Subject: [Gasification] Sheet metal design and prototyping >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> Dear all >> >> My exceedingly clever (God) Grandson, Shivayam Ellis (son of AguaDas Ellis) >> is starting a service at www.now cut.com to provide prototype sheet metal >> parts from his X-Y cutting table, described below. >> >> Hard to beat. >> >> TomReed - BEF >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... >> Name: photo.PNG >> Type: image/png >> Size: 406036 bytes >> Desc: not available >> URL: >> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110807/8cab77e6/attachment.png> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Dr Thomas B Reed >> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation >> www.Woodgas.com >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gasification mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> >> >> End of Gasification Digest, Vol 12, Issue 4 >> ******************************************* >> > _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/
