Dear Tom,
The zinc and other metals ends up in the ash, passing TCLP testing in
every instance and the DOE report for the EPA on gasification states that the
chemistry of gasification produces ash with metals bound in a manner that
prevents leaching and passes TCLP necessary for non-hazardous landfilling
operation. All of our TCLP tests including RDF are below regulatory thresholds.
There are a significant number of other benefits to gasification stated in the
DOE/Radian report.
There has been concern about metals emissions from gasification but
when one considers the vapor pressure of metals and final true gasifier output
gas temperature, these concerns are baseless, with the possible exception of
mercury. Our tests did not show mercury in the output gas. The DOE/Radian
report did not specifically identify where the metals went as the mass balance
didn't work out, and this has some residual concern about their path and
eventual status, but taking each system apart and analyzing the deposits for
metals will probably find the missing mass balance, but this is a time
consuming process for minimal benefit.
The DOE/Radian report was authored by the same Radian engineer who
conducted extensive testing on our system.
Sincerely,
Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
Thermogenics Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Miles <[email protected]>
To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
<[email protected]>; mark <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, Nov 12, 2012 9:32 am
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project
Tom,
Where did the zinc from the tires end up in your process? In the ash?
In combustion it is oxidized to fine particle and is usually removed from the
stack gas with an electrostatic precipitator.
Tom
From: Gasification [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 8:28 AM
To: [email protected]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project
For dioxins need to be produced, the chlorine needs oxygen to form the
intermediate chlorine dioxide and without the availability of oxygen, and the
presence of excess hydrogen, dioxins are actually destroyed by the stripping of
oxygen to form water with the hydrogen and the hydrogen produces hydrogen
chloride or hydrochloric acid. There are a series of reactions and conditions
needed to produce dioxins including temperature, residence time, oxygen, and
designs of thermal systems can affect the production where a pyrolytic gas is
combusted, they will be produced.
In our testing for the North Counties Association, a group of cities around San
Diego, the ash and gas we produced from MSW/RDF operations in South Houston did
not contain any dioxins. Additionally, with the interesting gas cleaning system
we have developed, tires gasified contained no sulfur by FTIR analysis and
other analysis. It was not a specific S removal system i.e., not designed
specifically to remove S from the gas.
Sincerely,
Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
Thermogenics Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Miles <[email protected]>
To: mark <[email protected]>; 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
<[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, Nov 10, 2012 9:38 pm
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project
Mark,
The Japanese unit looks like it might be a small rotary pyrolyzer that is
heated by burning the offgas. In that case we would expect to see a char
product and a clean stack.
Ebara is the main waste to energy company that uses gasification in Japan. Burn
the gas directly into a close coupled boiler.
Japan funded extensive waste gasification in the 1990s. They tried several
different types of gasifiers. Ebara is one of the few companies that still used
gasification for waste. There are several companies that make rotary
pyrolyzers. Last year in Kyoto we did not see evidence that they are used much
for biochar production. Most biochar seems to be made by very small scale
stirred bed rice husk gasifiers by Kansai Corporation.. The gas is burned above
the stirred bed and used to heat water for space heating or process heat. The
biochar (called “kuntan”) sells for about $0.40/lb.
Tom
From: Gasification [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Mark Ludlow
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 7:01 PM
To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project
Tom,
The incinerators I’ve seen, operate with excess oxygen. This seems antithetical
to gasification. Perhaps a two-stage gasifier?
Mark
From: Gasification [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Tom Miles
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 7:09 PM
To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project
You could call it a pyrolytic incinerator. The gases must be burned in
conditions to completely destroy the dioxins. Even the poultry manure gasifier
in West Virginia had to be tested for dioxins. Poultry litter manure has about
1% chlorine on a dry basis. Municipal waste also is loaded with salts from
foods and fertilizers. We found much higher concentrations of salts in ash from
MSW incineration than we expected.
Tom
From: Gasification [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Lloyd Helferty
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 4:49 PM
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project
In answer to Mark Ludlow's question, Where does the rest of the “trash” go?
That would probably be "up the stack" ~ i.e. == air emissions ??
In answer to John Miedema's question about "chlorides involved in the trash"
and a possible dioxin problem?
Again, you might, depending on the TEMPS involved in the process.
You might expect that one good way to avoid Dioxins is to avoid burning
chlorinated plastics, i.e. PVC (Polyvinyl chloride), Chlorinated polyethylene
(CPE), Chlorinated polyvinyl chloride (CPVC) etc.
Yes, most dioxins arise in the condensed solid phase by the reaction of
inorganic chlorides with graphitic structures in char-containing ash particles,
with copper acting as a catalyst for these reactions, therefore the highest
dioxin concentration is typically created by the pyrolysis of PVC.
Large incinerators have mostly worked this out, however. The Japanese [and
German] tech is rather good at dealing with these things.
I don't know what kind of "air emissions" controls have been put on this
particular system, if any.
The single most important factor in forming dioxin-like compounds is the
temperature of the combustion gases. Oxygen concentration also plays a major
role on dioxin formation, but not the chlorine content. Several studies have
shown that removing PVC from waste would not significantly reduce the quantity
of dioxins emitted.**
The design of modern incinerators minimize dioxins by optimizing the stability
of the thermal process. The EU emission limit is 0.1 ng I-TEQ/m3. Modern
incinerators not only operate in conditions that minimize dioxin formation, but
are also equipped with pollution control devices which catch the low amounts
produced.
** The European Union Commission published in July 2000 a Green Paper on the
Environmental Issues of PVC noted that, "there does not seem to be a direct
quantitative relationship between chlorine content and dioxin formation".
Similarly, another study commissioned by the European Commission on "Life Cycle
Assessment of PVC and of principal competing materials" states that "Recent
studies show that the presence of PVC has no significant effect on the amount
of dioxins released through incineration of plastic waste."
Regards,
Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist
Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)
www.biochar-consulting.ca
48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada
905-707-8754
CELL: 647-886-8754
Skype: lloyd.helferty
Steering Committee coordinator
Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI)
President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario
National Office, Canadian Carbon Farming Initiative (CCFI)
Partner of Toronto Urban Ag Summit www.urbanagsummit.org
Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:
http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475
Advisory Committee Member, IBI
http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675
http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario
http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/
http://www.biocharontario.ca
www.biochar.ca
"It is the path, more than the arrival at the destination, that is important"
- Gandhi
On 2012-11-10 12:36 PM, John Miedema wrote:
I am curious about the chlorides involved in the trash (plastics)? Would not
there be a dioxin problem?
John Miedema
BioLogical Carbon, LLC
From: Gasification [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Mark Ludlow
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 2:24 AM
To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project
Where does the rest of the “trash” go? Just, “Somewhere”? RE: Conservation of
Mass.
Mark
From: Gasification [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Terry & Susan Layman
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 4:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Sweden's trash project / Japanese trash project
The Swedish are probably using the same system the Japanese invented.
Leave it to the Japanese to perfect a system, that virtually elimanates
trash. Each day Iwamoto's "Super Stone Clean Waste Treatment'' processors
can take a 20 ton pile of common garbage, and reduce it to less than 8 gallons
of what they call biochar.
Just watch their video. then you can see first hand the machine and the process.
I, wouldn't classify it as BioChar, but it looks to me like ashes.
Reduces waste volume from 1/100th to 1/3000th of original input:
1,000kg waste →300g ashes ( 2,200 lbs waste to 10.58 oz's ashes )
This is probably the most advanced system for Gasification.
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