I have been following this discussion waiting for someone to chime in the obvious but so far.... In general terms, an engine utilizes only about 25-30% of the total energy as work. The remainder of the energy (70-75%) is releases about equally between the exhaust and the engine cooling system. So why not use the air from the engine cooling system and divert that cooling airflow into the dryer. Now you do not have any of the dew point issues, sparks, etc such as when using exhaust gases for drying energy. The engine cooling system would use ambient air from the room and blow it into dryer with virtually no potential to cause fires or overheating of any sort. The engine usually has a fan already in place so no new parts would be required. Or you could use both sources of heat energy to dry the wet feedstock.
Just a thought...... Art Krenzel ________________________________________ From: Gasification <[email protected]> on behalf of DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 12:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust Dear Leland the dryer will be for corn and/or cotton stalk chips of up to 80mm in length. Best Regards Dimitris -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 9:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 7 Send Gasification mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust ([email protected]) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 16:08:21 -0400 From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Do you want to dry sewage, manure, pomace, DDG's or other biomass feedstock? Sincerely, Leland T. "Tom" Taylor Thermogenics Inc. -----Original Message----- From: DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES <[email protected]> To: gasification <[email protected]> Sent: Sun, Mar 27, 2016 12:00 pm Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust Thank you all for your replies and help. Andrew,Besides Dr Reed's handbook, Dr Mukunda from IISC India states the same in a paper of his. So I guess it is a rather safe assumption to say that you can dry wet biomass using the syngas genset's exhaust. If I find any experimental data, I will post them here. This is a very interesting topic for engineers (besides gasification itself). Best Regards to all Dimitris -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Friday, March 25, 2016 8:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 5 Send Gasification mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Reply to 'Mitris' Question (andrew schofield) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2016 14:52:17 +0000 From: andrew schofield <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: [Gasification] Reply to 'Mitris' Question Message-ID: <blupr16mb0323334d9316845bca9c3a55a8...@blupr16mb0323.namprd16.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dear Dimitris, In Dr Reed's and Agua Das' handbook; illustrates a wet gas recycle plant for drying green (wet) biomass. This is a direct-contact heat-exchanger; where the engine-exhaust goes through the bed of fuel-particles. A high temperature fan with a sealed shaft-gland forces convection of gasses from the colder outlet to mix with the inlet engine-exhaust gas. There is much potential energy in Otto cycle engine exhaust; about a third of the total chemical energy in the engine's fuel. To capture this energy and heat a cartridge full of freshly cut, green hack-wood is the best use for this normally wasted heat. The cartridge full of very hot wood is then lifted out of the chamber, and quickly emptied into the gasifier. My own design makes an excess of dried wood, beginning at about the moisture of growing hardwood; In excess of gasifier/engine requirement at about 30 KW load to fuel 5.0 L eight cylinder Otto-cycle engine. Heavier engine loads are the only regime where the heat required is adequate. I measured about 800 degrees Farenheight when the throttle-plate is operating more towards open continually Operator care must be excercised, because the wood will catch on fire, if allowed to cook beyond bone dry and golden brown. He watches the outlet temperature which should not exceed about 300 degrees Farenheight. Using wet-gas recycle, the whole batch-charge temperature rises at once, instead of burning only the wood at the inlet location, while wood particles at the outlet remains at the dew point as our friend Toby described. The wet-gas recycle fan is a very special machine, and is one of the kind. In order to fund more research; I am offering a used system. What are your requirement? Andrew Schofield Renewable Fuel Systems ________________________________________ From: Gasification <[email protected]> on behalf of [email protected] <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2016 2:00:01 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 4 Send Gasification mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES) 2. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 3 (Toby Seiler) 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni) 4. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 ([email protected]) 5. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 (Mark Elliott Ludlow) 6. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 (Tom Miles) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 21:01:23 +0200 From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust Message-ID: <F7E6F49C13B64CADB81BE96C4ABEAE2D@DimitrisPC> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Hi Nicolo. Thank you (but I believe that giving me an offer is irrelevant to the purpose of this list, isn't it?) Now to the point: According to my calulations, if we consider that a saturated genset exhaust stream is @ 415 oC with absolute humidity of 800 gr/kgr (stream A, this is what I ask - if its humidity is correct) and we mix it 50%-50% with ambient air of 25 oC with 50% relative humidity(stream B), the resulting stream will be a mixture of about 220 oC with an absolute humidity ~400 gr/kgr(stream C). This mixture stream C has a drying potential, but I do not know if the assumption on stream A is correct. Any ideas? Best Regards Dimitris -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 8:00 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 3 Send Gasification mailing list submissions to [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 (Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES) 2. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 (Nicol? Cerni) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:38:12 +0200 From: Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo thank you for your replies, but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from physics point of view... Anybody? Best Regards Dimitris On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, [email protected] wrote: > Send Gasification mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust > (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES) > 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals C.B.) > 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust ([email protected]) > 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 > From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust > Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230@DimitrisPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hello all. > Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset > in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? > I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is > saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. > What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or absolute > humidity (gr/kgr)? > > Best Regards > Dimitris > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100 > From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > Hallo Dimitris, > > no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but the > latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry wet > biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize or even > ignite the biomass. > I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple setup: > A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the > exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow. > They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff could > be taken out below. > Seems simple... > > best regards > > Rolf > > > > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 > "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hello all. >> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset >> in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? >> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is >> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. >> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or >> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? >> >> Best Regards >> Dimitris > -- ??????, ???????? ??????? ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc _______________________________________ ??????? & ?????????? ?????????? 12 ?????? ?.?. 41222 ???./FAX:2410256400 www.kokaras.gr _______________________________________ ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:48:27 +0100 From: Nicol? Cerni <[email protected]> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 Message-ID: <caa0zrvchr-am70arizwritoso8ikm+gjwysp89mg8iej1b_...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" hello we know we must offer our system is it ok? 2016-03-23 18:38 GMT+01:00 Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES < [email protected]>: > Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo > thank you for your replies, > but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from > physics point of view... > Anybody? > Best Regards > Dimitris > > On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, [email protected] wrote: > > Send Gasification mailing list submissions to > > [email protected] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > [email protected] > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > [email protected] > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust > > (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES) > > 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals C.B.) > > 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust ([email protected]) > > 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 > > From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust > > Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230@DimitrisPC> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Hello all. > > Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven > genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? > > I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is > saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. > > What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or > absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? > > > > Best Regards > > Dimitris > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100 > > From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <[email protected]> > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > > > Hallo Dimitris, > > > > no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but > the latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry wet > biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize or even > ignite the biomass. > > I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple setup: > > A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the > exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow. > > They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff > could be taken out below. > > Seems simple... > > > > best regards > > > > Rolf > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 > > "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> wrote: > > > >> Hello all. > >> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven > genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? > >> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is > saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. > >> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or > absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? > >> > >> Best Regards > >> Dimitris > > > > -- > ??????, > > ???????? ??????? > ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc > _______________________________________ > ??????? & ?????????? > ?????????? 12 > ?????? > ?.?. 41222 > ???./FAX:2410256400 > www.kokaras.gr > _______________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ > -- *gradite i nostri piu' distinti saluti, Atentamente,best regards, freundliche Gr??e *?????????? ??????????? *Nicolo Cerni , * *N C A* (N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociates www.nico-cerni.com , marketing industriale, [email protected] *Customers only * *+39 340 830.67.97 - Home office +39 045 69.32.996 ( 24 hours voice recorder )* *Europa HQ Deutschland Hr/ Mr Wilhelm Doenne* Telefon *+49. 5141.219.83.72 / ( 09:30 / 17:oo)* - 5141 980 912 fx ( DDU Celle ) Mobil +49.152 028 05119 ( *Wilhelm Doenne* ) Funk +49 176 457 38 790 .( *Nico Cerni *) *EPC department - European and international contractors * *GENERAL CONTRACTOR company AES gmbh , Akazienweg, 16, D 15834 Rangsdorf ( Berlin Brandenburg www.altair-pyro.com <http://www.altair-pyro.com> , ** Electrical contractors* Esiet Office (24h) +39.02.97.37.58.01 - ask reception for Mr Maurizio Andreoli ( 09:oo-18: 3o ) - *Skype : nico_cerni * *THIS E MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL OUR CONFIDENTIALITY AND NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT APPLIES - DIESE NACHRICHT IST VERTRAULICH, ES GILT UNSERE VERSCHWIEGENHEITSVEREINBARUNG* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160323/f0db76a2/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ ------------------------------ End of Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 3 ******************************************* ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:11:49 +0000 (UTC) From: Toby Seiler <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 3 Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Saturated means the gas contains all the water that it can hold and when it is put in contact with your wood, will condense into liquid water and give up 970 btu per pound of water that condenses. ? ? On Wednesday, March 23, 2016 2:00 PM, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote: ----- Forwarded Message ----- Send Gasification mailing list submissions to ??? [email protected] To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit ??? http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to ??? [email protected] You can reach the person managing the list at ??? [email protected] When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." Today's Topics: ? 1. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 ? ? ? (Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES) ? 2. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 (Nicol? Cerni) Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo thank you for your replies, but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from physics point of view... Anybody? Best Regards Dimitris On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, [email protected] wrote: > Send Gasification mailing list submissions to > ??? [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > ??? > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ??? [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ??? [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >? ? 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >? ? ? (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES) >? ? 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals C.B.) >? ? 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust ([email protected]) >? ? 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 > From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust > Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230@DimitrisPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hello all. > Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset > in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? > I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is > saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. > What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or absolute > humidity (gr/kgr)? > > Best Regards > Dimitris > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100 > From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > Hallo Dimitris, > > no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but the > latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry wet > biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize or even > ignite the biomass. > I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple setup: > A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the > exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow. > They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff could > be taken out below. > Seems simple... > > best regards > > Rolf > > > > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 > "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hello all. >> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset >> in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? >> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is >> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. >> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or >> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? >> >> Best Regards >> Dimitris > -- ??????, ???????? ??????? ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc _______________________________________ ??????? & ?????????? ?????????? 12 ?????? ?.?. 41222 ???./FAX:2410256400 www.kokaras.gr _______________________________________ hello we know we must offer our system is it ok? 2016-03-23 18:38 GMT+01:00 Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES <[email protected]>: Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo thank you for your replies, but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from physics point of view... Anybody? Best Regards Dimitris On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, [email protected] wrote: > Send Gasification mailing list submissions to >? ? ? [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >? ? ? >?http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >? ? ? [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at >? ? ? [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > >? ? 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >? ? ? ?(DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES) >? ? 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals C.B.) >? ? 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust ([email protected]) >? ? 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 > From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust > Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230@DimitrisPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hello all. > Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset > in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? > I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is > saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. > What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or absolute > humidity (gr/kgr)? > > Best Regards > Dimitris > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100 > From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > Hallo Dimitris, > > no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but the > latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry wet > biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize or even > ignite the biomass. > I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple setup: > A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the > exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow. > They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff could > be taken out below. > Seems simple... > > best regards > > Rolf > > > > > On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 > "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hello all. >> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset >> in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? >> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is >> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. >> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or >> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? >> >> Best Regards >> Dimitris > -- ??????, ???????? ??????? ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc _______________________________________ ??????? & ?????????? ?????????? 12 ?????? ?.?. 41222 ???./FAX:2410256400 www.kokaras.gr _______________________________________ _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers,? News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ -- gradite i nostri? piu' distinti saluti, Atentamente, best regards, ? ?freundliche Gr??e ???????????? ??????????? Nicolo Cerni ,?N?C?A?(N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociateswww.nico-cerni.com?, marketing industriale,[email protected] Customers only?+39 340 830.67.97 - Home office ???? +39 045?69.32.996 ( 24 hours voice recorder ) ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Europa HQ Deutschland Hr/? Mr Wilhelm Doenne Telefon ? ? ? ? +49. 5141.219.83.72 / ( 09:30 / 17:oo) - 5141 980 912 fx?( DDU Celle ) Mobil ? ? ? ? ? ?+49.152 028 05119 ???(?Wilhelm? Doenne?)? ? ? ?Funk ? ? ? ? ? ? +49 176 457 38 790 ?.(?Nico Cerni?) EPC? department - European and international contractors? GENERAL CONTRACTOR company AES gmbh , Akazienweg, 16, D 15834 Rangsdorf ( Berlin Brandenburg www.altair-pyro.com ,??Electrical? contractors? ? ??Esiet Office (24h) +39.02.97.37.58.01 - ?ask reception for Mr Maurizio Andreoli ?( 09:oo-18: 3o ) - ? Skype : nico_cerni? THIS E MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL OUR CONFIDENTIALITY AND NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT APPLIES - ?DIESE NACHRICHT IST VERTRAULICH, ES GILT ?UNSERE VERSCHWIEGENHEITSVEREINBARUNG _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers,? News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160323/f638275b/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 20:39:49 +0100 From: Nicol? Cerni <[email protected]> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust Message-ID: <caa0zrvctk5xqkea3wgwzb55-9pjn36df+orccnw27ic8m4a...@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hello sorry I ll be back Monday regards 2016-03-23 20:01 GMT+01:00 DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES < [email protected]>: > Hi Nicolo. > Thank you (but I believe that giving me an offer is irrelevant to the > purpose of this list, isn't it?) > Now to the point: > According to my calulations, if we consider that a saturated genset > exhaust stream is @ 415 oC with absolute humidity of 800 gr/kgr (stream A, > this is what I ask - if its humidity is correct) and we mix it 50%-50% > with > ambient air of 25 oC with 50% relative humidity(stream B), the resulting > stream will be a mixture of about 220 oC with an absolute humidity ~400 > gr/kgr(stream C). > This mixture stream C has a drying potential, but I do not know if the > assumption on stream A is correct. > Any ideas? > Best Regards > Dimitris > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- From: > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 8:00 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 3 > > Send Gasification mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 > (Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES) > 2. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 (Nicol? Cerni) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 19:38:12 +0200 > From: Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo > thank you for your replies, > but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from > physics point of view... > Anybody? > Best Regards > Dimitris > > On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, [email protected] wrote: > >> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES) >> 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals C.B.) >> 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust ([email protected]) >> 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 >> From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230@DimitrisPC> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hello all. >> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven genset >> in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? >> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is >> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. >> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or >> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? >> >> Best Regards >> Dimitris >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100 >> From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> >> Hallo Dimitris, >> >> no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but >> the latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry >> wet >> biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize or >> even >> ignite the biomass. >> I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple setup: >> A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the >> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow. >> They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff could >> be taken out below. >> Seems simple... >> >> best regards >> >> Rolf >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 >> "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hello all. >>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven >>> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? >>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is >>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. >>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or >>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? >>> >>> Best Regards >>> Dimitris >>> >> >> > -- > ??????, > > ???????? ??????? > ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc > _______________________________________ > ??????? & ?????????? > ?????????? 12 > ?????? > ?.?. 41222 > ???./FAX:2410256400 > www.kokaras.gr > _______________________________________ > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 18:48:27 +0100 > From: Nicol? Cerni <[email protected]> > To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 > Message-ID: > <caa0zrvchr-am70arizwritoso8ikm+gjwysp89mg8iej1b_...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > hello > we know we must offer our system > is it ok? > > > 2016-03-23 18:38 GMT+01:00 Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES < > [email protected]>: > > Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo >> thank you for your replies, >> but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from >> physics point of view... >> Anybody? >> Best Regards >> Dimitris >> >> On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, [email protected] >> wrote: >> > Send Gasification mailing list submissions to >> > [email protected] >> > >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> > >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >> > >> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> > [email protected] >> > >> > You can reach the person managing the list at >> > [email protected] >> > >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> > than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." >> > >> > >> > Today's Topics: >> > >> > 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> > (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES) >> > 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals C.B.) >> > 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust ([email protected]) >> > 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni) >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > Message: 1 >> > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 >> > From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> >> > To: <[email protected]> >> > Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> > Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230@DimitrisPC> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> > >> > Hello all. >> > Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven >> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? >> > I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is >> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. >> > What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or >> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? >> > >> > Best Regards >> > Dimitris >> > -------------- next part -------------- >> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> > URL: < >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > Message: 2 >> > Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100 >> > From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <[email protected]> >> > To: [email protected] >> > Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> > >> > >> > Hallo Dimitris, >> > >> > no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but >> the latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry >> wet >> biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize or >> even >> ignite the biomass. >> > I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple >> > setup: >> > A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the >> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow. >> > They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff >> could be taken out below. >> > Seems simple... >> > >> > best regards >> > >> > Rolf >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 >> > "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> >> Hello all. >> >> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven >> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? >> >> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is >> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. >> >> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or >> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? >> >> >> >> Best Regards >> >> Dimitris >> > >> >> -- >> ??????, >> >> ???????? ??????? >> ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc >> _______________________________________ >> ??????? & ?????????? >> ?????????? 12 >> ?????? >> ?.?. 41222 >> ???./FAX:2410256400 >> www.kokaras.gr >> _______________________________________ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Gasification mailing list >> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address >> [email protected] >> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page >> >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: >> http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ >> >> > > > -- > > *gradite i nostri piu' distinti saluti, Atentamente,best regards, > freundliche Gr??e *?????????? ??????????? > > *Nicolo Cerni , * > *N C A* (N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociates > www.nico-cerni.com , marketing industriale, [email protected] > > *Customers only * > *+39 340 830.67.97 - Home office +39 045 69.32.996 ( 24 hours voice > recorder )* > > > > *Europa HQ Deutschland Hr/ Mr Wilhelm Doenne* > > Telefon *+49. 5141.219.83.72 / ( 09:30 / 17:oo)* - 5141 980 912 > fx ( DDU Celle ) > Mobil +49.152 028 05119 ( *Wilhelm Doenne* ) > Funk +49 176 457 38 790 .( *Nico Cerni *) > > > *EPC department - European and international contractors * > > > *GENERAL CONTRACTOR company AES gmbh , Akazienweg, 16, D 15834 Rangsdorf ( > Berlin Brandenburg www.altair-pyro.com <http://www.altair-pyro.com> , > ** Electrical > contractors* Esiet Office (24h) +39.02.97.37.58.01 - ask reception > for Mr Maurizio Andreoli ( 09:oo-18: 3o ) - *Skype : nico_cerni * > > > *THIS E MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL OUR CONFIDENTIALITY AND NON DISCLOSURE > AGREEMENT APPLIES - DIESE NACHRICHT IST VERTRAULICH, ES GILT UNSERE > VERSCHWIEGENHEITSVEREINBARUNG* > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160323/f0db76a2/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ > > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 3 > ******************************************* > > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ > -- *gradite i nostri piu' distinti saluti, Atentamente,best regards, freundliche Gr??e *?????????? ??????????? *Nicolo Cerni , * *N C A* (N)ico (C)erni (A)ssociates www.nico-cerni.com , marketing industriale, [email protected] *Customers only * *+39 340 830.67.97 - Home office +39 045 69.32.996 ( 24 hours voice recorder )* *Europa HQ Deutschland Hr/ Mr Wilhelm Doenne* Telefon *+49. 5141.219.83.72 / ( 09:30 / 17:oo)* - 5141 980 912 fx ( DDU Celle ) Mobil +49.152 028 05119 ( *Wilhelm Doenne* ) Funk +49 176 457 38 790 .( *Nico Cerni *) *EPC department - European and international contractors * *GENERAL CONTRACTOR company AES gmbh , Akazienweg, 16, D 15834 Rangsdorf ( Berlin Brandenburg www.altair-pyro.com <http://www.altair-pyro.com> , ** Electrical contractors* Esiet Office (24h) +39.02.97.37.58.01 - ask reception for Mr Maurizio Andreoli ( 09:oo-18: 3o ) - *Skype : nico_cerni * *THIS E MAIL IS CONFIDENTIAL OUR CONFIDENTIALITY AND NON DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT APPLIES - DIESE NACHRICHT IST VERTRAULICH, ES GILT UNSERE VERSCHWIEGENHEITSVEREINBARUNG* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160323/ae16fea9/attachment-0001.html> ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 08:26:06 +0530 From: [email protected] To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Hi Dimitris, Engine exhaust cannot be saturated because it is over 100 Deg C. Only pure steam can be considered saturated at 100 deg c and 1 atm. Engine exhaust will have a saturation temperature that is decided by the molar% of H2O in the exhaust. This is typically around 55 Deg C. Regards Shivanand On 2016-03-23 23:08, Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES wrote: > Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo > thank you for your replies, > but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like from > physics point of view... > Anybody? > Best Regards > Dimitris > > On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, [email protected] > wrote: >> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES) >> 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals >> C.B.) >> 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust ([email protected]) >> 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 >> From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230@DimitrisPC> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hello all. >> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven >> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? >> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is >> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. >> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or >> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? >> >> Best Regards >> Dimitris >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100 >> From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> >> Hallo Dimitris, >> >> no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, but >> the latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used to dry >> wet biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to pyrolize >> or even ignite the biomass. >> I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple >> setup: >> A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the >> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow. >> They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff >> could be taken out below. >> Seems simple... >> >> best regards >> >> Rolf >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 >> "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hello all. >>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven >>> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? >>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is >>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. >>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or >>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? >>> >>> Best Regards >>> Dimitris >> > > -- > ??????, > > ???????? ??????? > ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc > _______________________________________ > ??????? & ?????????? > ?????????? 12 > ?????? > ?.?. 41222 > ???./FAX:2410256400 > www.kokaras.gr > _______________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org > > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2016 20:33:53 -0700 From: "Mark Elliott Ludlow" <[email protected]> To: "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" ...however, it's temperature quickly falls! Automotive exhaust systems rust away primarily because of condensation of moisture in the exhaust stream. Others have pointed-out that condensation is a very effective way to transfer thermal energy, which drives moisture from the interior of fuel particles. This is phenomenon is effectively used in very many counter-flow drying apparati. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gasification [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:56 PM To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 Hi Dimitris, Engine exhaust cannot be saturated because it is over 100 Deg C. Only pure steam can be considered saturated at 100 deg c and 1 atm. Engine exhaust will have a saturation temperature that is decided by the molar% of H2O in the exhaust. This is typically around 55 Deg C. Regards Shivanand On 2016-03-23 23:08, Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES wrote: > Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo > thank you for your replies, > but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like > from physics point of view... > Anybody? > Best Regards > Dimitris > > On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, [email protected] > wrote: >> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.b >> ioenergylists.org >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES) >> 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals >> C.B.) >> 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust ([email protected]) >> 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni) >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 >> From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230@DimitrisPC> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hello all. >> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven >> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? >> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is >> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. >> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or >> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? >> >> Best Regards >> Dimitris >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioener >> gylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100 >> From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> >> Hallo Dimitris, >> >> no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, >> but the latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used >> to dry wet biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to >> pyrolize or even ignite the biomass. >> I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple >> setup: >> A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the >> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow. >> They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff >> could be taken out below. >> Seems simple... >> >> best regards >> >> Rolf >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 >> "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hello all. >>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven >>> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? >>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is >>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. >>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or >>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? >>> >>> Best Regards >>> Dimitris >> > > -- > ??????, > > ???????? ??????? > ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc > _______________________________________ > ??????? & ?????????? > ?????????? 12 > ?????? > ?.?. 41222 > ???./FAX:2410256400 > www.kokaras.gr > _______________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bi > oenergylists.org > > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 07:52:05 -0700 From: "Tom Miles" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>, "'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Both direct and indirect methods are used. Sometimes heat from the engine exhaust is transferred to drying air, or directly to the fuel, using a heat exchanger. The temperature of the moisture laden exhaust exiting from the dried material must be above the dew point of the gas. By the time you dilute the engine exhaust to a temperature suitable for drying the fuel without cooking it - usually 50C-120C/120F-250 F - the dew point is pretty low so you need to dry in a thin layer, like on a belt, or blow the gas through the fuel with enough velocity, and with enough time, to let the condensation layer work up through the pile of fuel. In a thick bed or bin the moisture condenses in a layer in the fuel until it gets hot enough to evaporate. Tom -----Original Message----- From: Gasification [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Elliott Ludlow Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 8:34 PM To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification' <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 ...however, it's temperature quickly falls! Automotive exhaust systems rust away primarily because of condensation of moisture in the exhaust stream. Others have pointed-out that condensation is a very effective way to transfer thermal energy, which drives moisture from the interior of fuel particles. This is phenomenon is effectively used in very many counter-flow drying apparati. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gasification [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 7:56 PM To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 2 Hi Dimitris, Engine exhaust cannot be saturated because it is over 100 Deg C. Only pure steam can be considered saturated at 100 deg c and 1 atm. Engine exhaust will have a saturation temperature that is decided by the molar% of H2O in the exhaust. This is typically around 55 Deg C. Regards Shivanand On 2016-03-23 23:08, Dimitris Tzagkas - KOKARAS AND ASSOCIATES wrote: > Dear Rolf,Leland,Nicolo > thank you for your replies, > but still I got no clue what "saturated" genset exhaust looks like > from physics point of view... > Anybody? > Best Regards > Dimitris > > On 22/3/2016 8:00 ??, [email protected] > wrote: >> Send Gasification mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.b >> ioenergylists.org >> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of Gasification digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> (DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES) >> 2. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Energies Naturals >> C.B.) >> 3. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust ([email protected]) >> 4. Re: Drying using a syngas genset exhaust (Nicol? Cerni) >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 >> From: "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Subject: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> Message-ID: <42F812A1CF574A238B33CED7CDEFE230@DimitrisPC> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Hello all. >> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven >> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? >> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is >> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. >> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or >> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? >> >> Best Regards >> Dimitris >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was >> scrubbed... >> URL: >> <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/gasification_lists.bioener >> gylists.org/attachments/20160321/bf5a7819/attachment-0001.html> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2016 21:59:08 +0100 >> From: "Energies Naturals C.B." <[email protected]> >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Drying using a syngas genset exhaust >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >> >> >> Hallo Dimitris, >> >> no idea if syngas exhaust behaves differently from diesel exhaust, >> but the latter comes out at around 400 ?C and can be very well used >> to dry wet biomass. It should be mixed with ambient air so as not to >> pyrolize or even ignite the biomass. >> I once spoke to people from Central America who had a very simple >> setup: >> A sort of tower where the raw biomass is filled in at the top and the >> exhaust/air comes from below in counterflow. >> They said that the humidity was driven off to the top and dry stuff >> could be taken out below. >> Seems simple... >> >> best regards >> >> Rolf >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, 21 Mar 2016 20:50:01 +0200 >> "DIMITRIS TZAGKAS-KOKARAS & ASSOCIATES" <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hello all. >>> Has anyone ever tried to use the genset exhaust of a syngas driven >>> genset in order to use it in a biomass dryer(rotary or something)? >>> I can read in the literature that the syngas engine?s exhaust is >>> saturated, but I cannot find experimental data anywhere. >>> What does ?saturated? mean in numbers of relative humidity (%) or >>> absolute humidity (gr/kgr)? >>> >>> Best Regards >>> Dimitris >> > > -- > ??????, > > ???????? ??????? > ????.???????????? ????????? - MSc > _______________________________________ > ??????? & ?????????? > ?????????? 12 > ?????? > ?.?. 41222 > ???./FAX:2410256400 > www.kokaras.gr > _______________________________________ > > > _______________________________________________ > Gasification mailing list > > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address > [email protected] > > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bi > oenergylists.org > > for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: > http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ ------------------------------ End of Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 4 ******************************************* ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ ------------------------------ End of Gasification Digest, Vol 67, Issue 5 ******************************************* _______________________________________________ Gasification mailing list to Send a Message to the list, use the email address [email protected] to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/gasification_lists.bioenergylists.org for more Gasifiers, News and Information see our web site: http://gasifiers.bioenergylists.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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