"batteries are like O blood group blood, - the universal donor, once you put your however variable power into the battery bank it can power anything. (Also I guess the universal acceptor, you can throw any sort of variable electrical power at it and it will be accepted)."
I believe the last sentence gives some insight into how batteries are likely being used as a combined buffer and storage component. I am only pointing out that batteries are a significant cost component and must be treated properly to maximize their life. A customer may be dismayed when they discover they are going to have to replace their batteries after only a couple of years use... On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Pete&Sheri <[email protected]>wrote: > He didn't say that the batteries would be getting "your" raw voltage. He > said that equipment is available to take whatever you produce and condition > it properly to charge batteries. I didn't see him talking about grid tie > in the 20kw to 50kw range, though. To me, as long as you have a grid, > batteries would be a poor option. > > Pete Stanaitis > ----------------------- > > > derek schulze wrote: > > I would think that battery life would be reduced if you throw just >> anything >> at them. The incoming voltage needs to be somewhat controlled. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 3:30 AM, Geoff Thomas IMAP <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Hi Guys, it very much depends on the size and situation, I am a designer, >>> so I use a different mix of products for each situation according to the >>> total energy required per day, the available resource, the Peak load, >>> required storage, (ie days without input, - more relevant with Wind and >>> Solar because of the potential long eg wind droughts) possibility of >>> different input sources and such. >>> For the smaller systems, - up to app. 20kW I use the Australian company >>> Selectronic's SP Pro series, www.selectronic.com.au of which I am an >>> accredited installer. >>> I have yet to succeed in a tender for gasifier powered power, - tried for >>> one in the Kalahari in Africa, - they had endless thorn bushes, to burn, >>> - >>> 250kW planned to use Bill Klein's machine, and a slightly smaller one on >>> an >>> Island to the north of Darwin Australia, both using conversion and >>> inversion >>> equipment you would not expect me to divulge. >>> The Oz site is still running on diesel, so that one may still happen, - I >>> put in a 75 kW wind powered system using the same concept on another site >>> for those folk and it is working fine.. >>> Possibly best if you contact me about particular situations, I want to >>> make >>> known the general principles but not my suppliers and trade secrets as it >>> has taken years of severe slog to build this all up and only now does >>> bankruptcy start to look like receding to a more relaxed distance. >>> I will say that larger situations, - 150kW up, are in many respects much >>> cheaper in equipment than the smaller ones, although battery banks are >>> close >>> to proportional, - Battery banks, app. 25cents/watt/hr using C10. >>> >>> The name I give this design concept is Battery Centric, it is already >>> reasonably widely used for small stand-alone solar and wind systems, and >>> I >>> have helped to a degree Selectronics develop their units in that area, - >>> like almost everything in this whole renewable energy area, the real >>> driver >>> is product development. >>> What I can tell you is that the control and conversion equipment is >>> available to do amazing things, you don't have to tailor your gasifier to >>> a >>> specific requirement, you just have to make it reliable, - I, (and >>> probably >>> others) can do the rest. >>> For example control the output power from your generator according to >>> inputs you can specify, - temperature or volume or hydrogen content of >>> your >>> output gas or whatever you have found to be critical. >>> Hope I haven't made it all sound complicated, - it is really a >>> simplification process, batteries are like O blood group blood, - the >>> universal donor, once you put your however variable power into the >>> battery >>> bank it can power anything. >>> (Also I guess the universal acceptor, you can throw any sort of variable >>> electrical power at it and it will be accepted). >>> All sorts of possibilities open up. >>> Cheers, >>> Geoff. >>> >>> On 21/11/2010, at 6:00 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> >>>> 1. Re: Gasification Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 (JHasty) >>>> 2. Details please Geoff in Australia (Max Kennedy) >>>> 3. Re: Details please Geoff in Australia (Rolf Uhle) >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Message: 1 >>>> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2010 12:57:49 -0800 >>>> From: JHasty <[email protected]> >>>> To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Gasification Digest, Vol 53, Issue 1 >>>> Message-ID: >>>> <[email protected]> >>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >>>> >>>> Hi Geoff from Australia, >>>> Curious, what is the brand and cost of your stand-alone and grid connect >>>> controller you are using for your gasifier/battery bank system? >>>> Thanks, >>>> Jay >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 5:05 PM, Geoff Thomas IMAP <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Answering Doug and Greg, on the topic of getting your gasification >>>> >>>> >>>>> produced >>>>> power on to the grid, I use an Inverter that is a combination of >>>>> Stand-alone >>>>> and Grid connect, - this draws from a battery bank, and when the bank >>>>> is >>>>> full, legally (yes, approved) exports the incoming power to the grid. - >>>>> It >>>>> is a response to customers who want their Solar input to continue when >>>>> the >>>>> Grid is down, and also those who want to use their own power when the >>>>> Peak >>>>> grid power charges are occurring. >>>>> This sort of system is also a whole house UPS so delivers very high >>>>> quality >>>>> power to all your appliances without spikes. >>>>> Yes, it is more expensive, the Inverters are more expensive than a >>>>> straight >>>>> grid connect inverter, and depending on the size of the battery bank, >>>>> the >>>>> batteries can cost a lot as well. >>>>> (Just to pre-empt a discussion on batteries, I use high quality 22 >>>>> years >>>>> design life lead acid Tubulars, 16.4 years life if you cycle 20%/day, >>>>> they >>>>> are not expensive and the manufacturer will take back any old batteries >>>>> and >>>>> re-cycle them, - lead acid battery technology has come a long way the >>>>> last >>>>> few decades). >>>>> The point of this system is you can use it for any input at all, your >>>>> electrical output from your gasifier only needs to be put into the >>>>> battery >>>>> bank, - ideal for batch gasifiers, and other intermittent renewables >>>>> such >>>>> as >>>>> Wind or Solar, raining time only Hydro, (run of the river, er um >>>>> gutter:-) >>>>> and the Inverter can also charge up the batteries from a petrol, diesel >>>>> or >>>>> gasifier genset or even use the grid power at off peak times. >>>>> This is like putting an incredibly flexible gear-box between your power >>>>> usage and your generation system. >>>>> Obviously, for a gasifier it takes all the worry out of meeting >>>>> specific >>>>> demand criteria, changing generator speeds and the like, all you need >>>>> is >>>>> a >>>>> maximum power tracking type of rectifier, several now widely available, >>>>> and >>>>> you are ready to roll. >>>>> Hope that helps, >>>>> Geoff Thomas. >>>>> Australia. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> The Gasification list has moved to >>> [email protected] - please update your email contacts to >>> reflect the change. >>> Please visit http://info.bioenergylists.org for more news on the list >>> move. >>> Thank you, >>> Gasification Administrator >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Gasification list has moved to >> [email protected] - please update your email contacts to >> reflect the change. >> Please visit http://info.bioenergylists.org for more news on the list >> move. >> Thank you, >> Gasification Administrator >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > The Gasification list has moved to > [email protected] - please update your email contacts to > reflect the change. > Please visit http://info.bioenergylists.org for more news on the list > move. > Thank you, > Gasification Administrator > _______________________________________________ The Gasification list has moved to [email protected] - please update your email contacts to reflect the change. Please visit http://info.bioenergylists.org for more news on the list move. Thank you, Gasification Administrator
