[gatortalk] Re: career advice

Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:06:19 -0700

<<I did not mean to be offensive>>
 
I apologize - I did not mean to imply that.  I did not mean that at all.  I appreciate your help and advice.  In fact - I might get someone to search my resume for your points. 
 
I typically look for smaller companies to work with.  I have that entrepenurial flair and seem to get along best with people with a similar mindset.  I do not have an 8 to 5, Mon-Fri mindset.  If there is work to be done - I do it.  I don't stop because its 5 PM or a weekend (unless the gators are playing). 
 
Big companies don't seem to like people like that and prefer to outsource those jobs. 
 
The company I am leaving - appears to be lead by the pide piper.  Getting all their projects lined up so that other people in third world countries can take them over. 
 
Then we are told that Americans won't do these jobs and they can't find any skilled workers for these job (code for - they can't find anyone for 1/2 the normal price). 
 
Keith
 
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [gatortalk] Re: career advice
From: Jerry Belloit <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, March 15, 2009 1:40 pm
To: [email protected]

Keith, I did not mean to be offensive.  I am speaking from experience in hiring.  I am still active in the hiring process and I have seen a lot of mistakes by people who have been out of the market for a while.  Things have changed in employment law and procedures over the last decade or two.  For example, just a few years ago we had an applicant for a position who included in her resume that she had won a beauty contest.  That immediately eliminated her from the applicant pool.  She was a middle-aged attorney and should have known better.  Thirty years ago, that would have been OK, but it is simply not acceptable today.
 
I have also seen people who have been “repurposed” (laid off) who have lost their confidence during the job interviews.  It is easy to do that.  I have been there and bought the t-shirt!  It takes some conscious effort to overcome the expectation that the interview will fail.
 
One thing that has not changed is that business jobs are still controlled by business people.  The bottom line is that the interview process is looking for the candidate that will make them the most money in the short and long run.  The concern with employers who interview people that are over-qualified for the position is that they will not be happy and they will want to leave soon if they are hired.  Just as you need to do in any sales, you must “overcome the ‘buyer’s’ objection” even if it is not vocalized.
 
One other bit of advice I give to anyone seeking a job is to find the companies that you feel will be the best fit for your talents and experience and seek them out even if they do not have a position available.  In doing that, I always suggest that the best way to contact the company is to visit without an appointment and had the HR person your resume personally.
 
Jerry
 
 
 
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 9:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [gatortalk] Re: career advice

 

Jerry:
 
Although I appreciate your intentions and admire you as one of the most intelligent posters on this message board - all this is common sense that I have been using for 20 years.  I've been a contractor for many years and have gone through so many interviews - I can sometimes hear the question before they can finish asking it. 
 
My point is - things have shifted dramatically.  Common sense no longer seems to work.  I think that Randy and Cee's general observations have mirrored mine - although different in details. 
 
It's almost like - attention to detail, hard work, getting to work on time, showing up each and every day, being sober / drug free / awake / attentive, being the best at what you do, having experience, having education, having certifications, being able to get things done in an efficient manner, being able to figure things out on your own - all the things that are common sense to people like us - are considered old fashioned and are not wanted. 
 
I've had people more interested in my Instant Messenger account and Facebook and LinkedIn profiles - than all my certifications. 
 
Thanks - but I feel that it is something more than just common sense
 
Keith
 
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [gatortalk] Re: career advice
From: Jerry Belloit <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, March 15, 2009 8:06 am
To: [email protected]

Keith,
 
As per your resume, I would actually have two.  One resume would be an executive summary of one page that highlights your education,  most important employment history, and any relevant certifications.  This would be followed by a detailed resume.  Be sure not to include any indication of gender or family status.  I also would be careful about including any community service activities that would suggest religion, family status, or gender.  Employers are not allowed to consider gender, religion, or family status.  To include these items might keep you from getting an interview since the employer might later face your resume in court (against someone else) and they would not want to have any evidence that they discriminated against a protected class.
 
When you interview a company, remember that often your first interview will be with someone who is not an IT guy but rather an HR guy.  You are there to “sell” yourself AND discover if the employer is a fit for you.  Consequently, do your pre-interview research.  Find out as much about the company as you can.  In the interview, ask intelligent questions about the company’s future.  Don’t ask about benefits—it shows the interviewer that you are interested in the benefits, not the job.  If you progress, you will eventually meet with the benefits person and he or she will tell you all you need to know.  Remember that while they are interviewing you, you are also interviewing the company. 
 
Being laid off is an ego hit.  However, you need to interview with the attitude that the company should be honored to have you as an employee.  You are skilled and hard working.  You can probably produce twice what a new kid out of college can do.  While your financial situation may be desperate, don’t let that desperation be seen or felt by the prospective employer.  Keep eye contact, and watch your body language.  Think before you speak and choose your words carefully.  Show them your VALUE to them and how you can make them money.
 
If you are applying for a position that is beneath your skill set, be frank about it and address it in the interview.  You might say something like this, “I know my qualifications and resume exceeds the requirements for this position.  Frankly, I would enjoy doing this kind of work again.”
 
I hope this helps.
 
Jerry
 
 
 
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 6:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [gatortalk] Re: career advice

 

Based on what I am hearing - I've decided that the best things I can do is - dumb down my resume. 
 
I get so many recruiters that say - I can't follow your resume.  Well - I work 60+ hours per week so I am working on several projects at one time.  Instead of that proving that I am a hard working person - that turns into a negative against me!
 
I'm convinced that if I act like a dumb, mindless, person that barely shows up for work, barely can do 40 hours per week, does slightly above average work (not great or exceptional though) - I'd be much better off.
 
My original idea of showing all my quality experience over 20 years seems stupid in retrospect - because no one wants you to have experience past 5 years.
 
So I'm dumbing down my resume.  I think I'll keep it as it is for very high (and very rare) positions asking for more than 10 years experience.  This resume will hardly ever be sent out.  Then kind of dumb resume for people wanting 5 years experience.  Then dumb as rocks for people wanting a couple of years experience. 
 
Maybe I should come up with new slogan:
 
Keith - the really dumb programmer. 
 
That should boost my responses significantly. 
 
 
Which brings me to my next question.  What do you advise young people to do today for a career?  The only two things I can think of are law and medicine - but if you talk to people in those professions - they are trying to get out of them. 
 
Do you advise anyone to get a college degree?  It use to be a great idea.  Now companies would rather hire someone with a degree from China or India. 
 
 
 
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Cecilia
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [gatortalk] Re: Herald sports writer Mike Phillips

 

My income definitely started over when I changed career focus.  And, 7 years after I left an accounting career spanning 3 decades, I cannot even get an interview for an accounting job.  They either think I'm over-qualified because of my years of experience... or I'm too far out of touch in the accounting world because of the years I was doing something else.  It really stinks.

 

So... I shifted my focus to getting a teaching job and still can't get hired, especially now that we are seeing more budget cuts hitting schools.  :-/

 

Cee
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 8:29 AM
Subject: [gatortalk] Re: Herald sports writer Mike Phillips

 

This is getting off Gators - so if we need to move it somewhere else - I understand
 
Things are so tight and different today. 
 
I am 47 years old now and already seeing the age discrimination thing - even though there is suppose to be a shortage of skilled workers in programming. 
 
20+ years of experience, plus BS and Master's no longer seems to matter.
 
Being able to "figure things out" no longer seems to matter.  People use to hire me to go figure out how to do things.  Nowadays - unless you've been doing something for 3 to 5 years - they assume you have no clue and never will be able to figure it out.
 
What you did several years ago does not matter.  For 20+ years I did manufacturing automation.  Have done very little in the last 7 years.  My resume only goes back about 7 years.  People are looking for someone in automation - look at my resume - and tell me that I have no knowledge or experience. 
 
How does someone change jobs and maintain an income the same?  If you completely start over - doesn't your income?  Doesn't your income drop to 1/4 of what it was?
 
Times are a changing ...
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [gatortalk] Re: Herald sports writer Mike Phillips
From: Helen Huntley <[email protected]>
Date: Fri, March 13, 2009 7:40 am
To: [email protected]

You try to figure out what else you can do. I took a buyout from the St. Pete Times last year because I could see that things were only going to get worse for the newspaper industry. Because I was personal finance editor, I thought reinventing myself as a financial adviser was a logical course of action. (http://www.holifieldhuntley.com/) I also have been doing some freelance writing and research. For example, I helped with the research for this book: http://www.amazon.com/Fight-Your-Money-Getting-Fortune/dp/0767929845/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1236944055&sr=1-1 .
So far things are working out. However, my husband works in local government, where they are planning major layoffs, so he could be job hunting later this year.
Helen
 
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:40 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
I was thinking about that similar thing today.  I think that the Raleigh newspaper laid off its sports writers and now th only sports writers are in Charlotte covering the whole state. 
 
If all you've ever done is go to college for something, and done something for like 20 years - what do you do when you are laid off and no one is hiring in your field?  It seems kind of ridiculous going back to school - after you've already graduated with a bachelor's or Master's. 
 
 
 

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [gatortalk] Herald sports writer Mike Phillips
From: Helen Huntley <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, March 12, 2009 3:58 pm
To: gatortalk <[email protected]>

Is one of the Miami Herald writers who lost his job this week in the big layoff they had, according to a report I read. We've often had his stories posted to Gator News.

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