In fact, I never realised how absolutely beautiful they really are until I held them close up to administer the Novotrimel.
At least some good came of this!
Anyway, I am supposed to give the treatment starting as a double dose the first day (yesterday) and a regular dose each day after that for an additional 9 days - to each gecko. After that I'm supposed to wait 3 weeks then bring in a stool sample for a fecal test. I assume the wait period is 2 weeks plus an extra week to collect enough stool for a good test.
Sounds similar to what I've done.
I don't understand how I can ever have a natural home for the geckos if I always have to worry about this parasite.
I treat any new animals and accept the fact that they may still have coccidia afterwards.
If the geckos are healthy, eat well and have normal stools, I usually do not treat again.
I do fecals so I know if they are still carrying it, but set them up in naturalistic
setups. If symptoms recur, I'll treat again. Yes, this does mean you may have to trash
a nice vivarium, but that's always a possibility with keeping herps.
Neil
Mike
> >
From: Neil Meister <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 2004/03/09 Tue AM 12:53:16 EST To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [gecko]quarantine U. ebenaui (update)
Hi Mike,
A sulfa drug makes sense. Just curious, how often are you supposed to treat the geckos? Coccidia often comes back after short treatments with Albon. Some species can apparently encyst in the intestinal wall and reappear down the road. It's not usually fatal of itself, but with delicate gex it's just one more straw on the camel's back. I've brought back animals that looked simply awful and others with low levels of coccidia and in good health can sometimes be acclimated without treatment. Since you've had vomiting, it's definitely worth medicating.
Normally wild geckos don't constantly come in contact with their own waste, the
coccidia don't get out of control. In shipping, warehousing and the
terrarium they can be
repeatedly exposed to oocysts (sort of an "egg"). The oocysts can
remain in the
environment for long periods, so the cleaning is really important to
prevent another
outbreak. Very high heat is supposed to kill coccidia, kind of hard
on geckos and plastic
vivaria though ; )
Neil
>Thanks, Julie and Neil. Well from a web search it seems Novotrimel >contains sulfamethoxazole. The geckos don't appear to have runny >stool. Their stool actually seems to have been hardening up in the >past week so I suppose that is a good sign. I do have them >alternating between two Tupperware containers as you said. I am also >using short lengths of PVC pipe as shelters because these are easy >to clean and the bathroom rolls are really messy when they get wet. >I just soak them in the bleach solution in the containers. > >Well, Neil, your prognosis sounds grim if even bleach can't kill it ><insert worry here>. I suppose if it's a common bug the geckos >should turn out all right. And as Julie said, it hasn't killed her >lizards so I hope it won't kill mine. So am I to assume that the >geckos' immune systems themselves can kill the parasites, or is this >just a bug that they will always live with and will recur if the >geckos are stressed? I think keeping them in a Tupperware box seems >really stressful in itself ;o) > >I will keep you updated. > >Mike > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Neil A. Meister >To: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 2:46 PM >Subject: Re: [gecko]quarantine U. ebenaui (update) > >Hi Mike, > >This very common, especially in wc Uroplatus. Some animals never >show symptoms, >other have runny stool, become lethargic and waste away. The level >of coccidia and stress >are two important factors.> >debugging meds.>Strict hygiene is important. I use only disposable materials in the >cage and clean completely >daily. Having two cages so you can move the geckos into one and >clean the other is a good idea. >I haven't found anything gecko-safe that can kill the oocysts (even >bleach doesn't work), so >thorough cleaning and rinsing is the best you can do. Be careful so >to spread it to any other >herps you may have. > >I'm not familiar with Novotrimel, do you know the active ingredients >are. Do any vets on the >list use it? I've used Albon (sulfadimethoxine) many times for this. >Treatment was anywhere >from 9 to 12 days. Even if coccidia wasn't eliminated, it was >greatly reduced and most animals >recovered. > >Good luck, >Neil > >>I took the geckos into the vet on Friday and the vet said they >>looked good. They've been eating as well (with no vomiting) so I >>was quite happy. I got the call today that the fecal test test >>results came back and my geckos have Eimeria spp. oocysts >>(coccidia) so now I have to medicate them. Poor things. The drug is >>Novotrimel. He wants to see another fecal 3 weeks from the end of >>the medication. I suppose this means I'll have to throw away all my >>fancy plants that I was using for the vivarium. But I wouldn't want >>to risk reinfection. >> > > >Anyway, that's the update. I'm not really sure what coccidia does to >geckos but it seems to be a bad thing in poultry livestock. > > > >Mike > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Neil A. Meister > >To: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:10 AM > >Subject: Re: [gecko]how do I quarantine LTC U. ebenaui > > >Hi Mike, > > >Quarantine for LTC is the same as for WC. It is definitely worth >finding out what the problem > >is before treating as the wrong meds will do no good and stress a >weakened animal. > >How long is LTC in this case? > > >What you're seeing is not uncommon. I suspect protozoa of some sort, >coccidia is the most common > >problem. If your gecko is vomiting, it does need help. Keep >collecting fecal samples in case > >the first one is negative. Repeat fecals at least 3 times if >negative to be sure nothing > >is missed. One negative only means there was nothing found in that >particular sample, > >no that the gecko is free of parasites. > > >your temperatures are a little cool. 60's is good for night, but a >few degrees warmer (72-76) > >is better for day temps. A weak basking light placed over a cork >tube or similar hide spot > >should work in your situation. > > >I quarantine small Uros in critter keepers or tall rubbermaids that >are easily washed and rinsed. > >Bedding is paper towel (brown if you can get it) with a few bits of >dried leaves or moss > >on top. Add a few climbing branches and a papertowel tube for >hiding. Clean out feces daily. > >If you find parasites, cleaning will have to be more rigorous. >Having two similar cages set up > >so you can move the geckos to a clean one while disinfecting the >other is a good idea. > > >Mist 2-3 times per day and cover part of the lid with a piece of >plastic to keep in humidity > >if required. > > >Do not use vermiculite for a substrate. It could be ingested when >the geckos lunge at prey. > > >I'm not crazy about using more than one med at a time. I like to use >one, wait a few days, then use > >the other if more than one is necessary. Definitely get a vet >opinion if you have to medicate. > > >Good luck, > >Neil > > > > >>Let me first apologize if this is long-winded. >> > > > >Late last week I picked up a pair of LTC Uroplatus. After reading >about care of recent imports I got the general idea that people >didn't like to medicate their geckos for no reason and since I >didn't have a fecal sample I wasn't in a rush to call the vet for> > > > >The evening after I brought them home they ate. The evening after >that, they ate again. This was obviously a good sign but the >crickets I was feeding them, although appearing small when I put >them in the enclosure, were sort of big for the geckos (1/2-3/4" >crix, 4" geckos). It's been 3 days since they ate but they still go >into hunting pose when they see crickets. They just don't strike. > > > > > >Today I found two crickets vomited up (2 crickets in the same vomit >so from one gecko). The other gecko passed feces and I collected >this for the vet for tomorrow <crosses fingers that he's there>. I >took both geckos out of the enclosure and let them walk on my hands >so I could examine them. The male looks decent enough but the female >seems "ribby"; not tremendously, but ribby nonetheless. Her pelvis >seems boney, too. She was the one that vomited. They jump around >from hand to hand, though. > > > > >I might also mention that the temperature in the enclosure is mid to >high 60's. I don't know if this is a problem. A friend suggested I >use a small red bulb to bring the heat up to the low 70's but I'm >afraid to try that. I also thought about a low temperature heat tape >but that also scares me a bit :o) Come summer, I know the >temperature will be perfect. > > > > >SO, I now want to quarantine these geckos in a "sterile" environment >so I can closely monitor them and collect clean fecal samples if I >need to. What I would like to know is, how can I create such an >environment? Sterile enclosures are generally dry, IME. Would >something like moist vermiculite be a good bedding with a few >plastic branches for the geckos to climp on? How do other Uroplatus >keepers quarantine their animals? > > > > >Thank for any help or suggestions. I'll suggest Flagyl and Panacur >to the vet for a debugging regimen and see what he says. That seems >to be the general method. > > > > >Mike > > > >-- > >Neil Meister > >Promotions Secretary >Global Gecko Association > >http://www.gekkota.com > >http://www.gekkota.com/html/gecko_night_2002.html > >President >Nova Scotia Herpetoculture Society > >http://users.eastlink.ca/~nshs > > > >-- >Neil Meister > >Promotions Secretary >Global Gecko Association >http://www.gekkota.com >http://www.gekkota.com/html/gecko_night_2002.html > >President >Nova Scotia Herpetoculture Society >http://users.eastlink.ca/~nshs
-- Neil Meister Semaphor Design Company Inc. 6450 Young Street, Suite 4 Halifax, NS B3L 2A3 Canada 902.455.0133 ext 4
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-- Neil Meister Semaphor Design Company Inc. 6450 Young Street, Suite 4 Halifax, NS B3L 2A3 Canada 902.455.0133 ext 4 _______________________________________________ Global Gecko Association http://www.gekkota.com Classifieds http://www.gekkota.com/cgi-gekkota/classifieds.cgi gecko mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gekkota.com/mailman/listinfo/gecko
