Great. I expect that we'll submit a revised I-D before IESG review.

On 6/25/13 2:03 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
> Hi Peter,
> 
> Thanks, that all seems fine in the light of your comments. I would
> expect to review this as "Ready" when it reaches the IESG agenda.
> 
> Regards
>    Brian
> 
> On 25/06/2013 02:30, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>> On 6/23/13 8:27 PM, Peter Saint-Andre (psaintan) wrote:
>>> Hi Brian, thanks for the review.
>>
>> Here is a provisional diff that addresses your feedback:
>>
>> https://github.com/emcho/cusax/commit/1c5e9d681748685360cc6677ea2e369b352e66db#draft-ivov-xmpp-cusax-07.xml
>>
>>> On Jun 23, 2013, at 8:01 PM, Brian E Carpenter <[email protected]>
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on
>>>> Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at
>>>> <http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
>>>>
>>>> Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments
>>>> you may receive.
>>>>
>>>> Document: draft-ivov-xmpp-cusax-06.txt
>>>> Reviewer: Brian Carpenter
>>>> Review Date: 2013-06-24
>>>> IETF LC End Date: 2013-07-16
>>>> IESG Telechat date:
>>>>
>>>> Summary:  Almost ready
>>>> --------
>>>>
>>>> Comment:
>>>> --------
>>>>
>>>> I have some issues, but I don't know whether to classify any of them as
>>>> major.
>>>>
>>>> Issues:
>>>> -------
>>>>
>>>> In Introduction:
>>>>
>>>> "  As a result, a number of adopters have found themselves needing
>>>>   features that are not offered by any single-protocol solution, but
>>>>   that separately exist in SIP and XMPP implementations.  The idea of
>>>>   seamlessly using both protocols together would hence often appeal to
>>>>   service providers. "
>>>>
>>>> A few paragraphs later, you discuss the case of an end user who would like
>>>> to use SIP and XMPP together with *different* service providers.
>>> Although that's out of scope for this document. We might address that 
>>> scenario in a future document.
>>>
>>>>  I would suggest
>>>> ending this sentence with "appeal to service providers and users."
>>> Good point.
>>>> "  Finally, this document makes a further simplifying assumption by
>>>>   discussing only the use of a single client, not use of and
>>>>   coordination among multiple endpoints controlled by the same user
>>>>   (e.g., user agents running simultaneously on a laptop computer,
>>>>   tablet, and mobile phone)."
>>>>
>>>> Hmm. Isn't that the normal case today, and your simplifying assumption
>>>> the exception? It's certainly extremely annoying to have different
>>>> contacts lists on different devices, for example. This seems like a
>>>> big gap in the model, with no hints on how it might be filled. (As big
>>>> as the gap between POP3 and IMAP, in some ways.)
>>> At least in XMPP, you'd have the same contact list on all of those devices. 
>>> But we can word this more carefully.
>>>
>>>> In Client Bootstrap:
>>>>
>>>> "  While it should be possible for CUSAX users to manually configure
>>>>   their separate SIP and XMPP accounts, service providers offering
>>>>   CUSAX services to users of dual-stack SIP/XMPP clients ought to
>>>>   provide means of online provisioning,..."
>>>>
>>>> 1. I would anyway expect my CUSAX client to come with a configuration
>>>> wizard, including a path to the online provisioning if available.
>>> True.
>>>> 2. Is there any reason why SIP service providers and XMPP service
>>>> providers shouldn't individually provide on-line provisioning?
>>> No.
>>>
>>> (Something like the technology proposed at the aggsrv BoF in Orlando might 
>>> help, too, but that's just a gleam in the eye at this point.)
>>>
>>>>  You're
>>>> describing something close to a captive-customer scenario,
>>> We are indeed assuming that a dual-stack user agent would interact with a 
>>> combined service (i.e., CUSAX on the client side and CUSAX on the server 
>>> side).  I am not sure that a customer of such a service is a captive.
>>>
>>>> rather than
>>>> encouraging an open approach to provisioning.
>>> As far as I can see, no open provisioning protocol is available yet. The 
>>> aforementioned aggsrv approach might fit the bill. It's too early to say, 
>>> but we can at least mention the possibility that such a technology might be 
>>> developed in the future.
>>>
>>>> The CUSAX client would
>>>> in any case have to deal with any inconsistencies in provisioning.
>>> I'm not sure what actionable advice we can provide here, but I'll discuss 
>>> with with my co-authors.
>>>> In Server-Side Setup:
>>>>
>>>> "  In order for CUSAX to function properly, XMPP service administrators
>>>>   should make sure that at least one of the vCard [RFC6350] "tel"
>>>>   fields for each contact is properly populated with a SIP URI or a
>>>>   phone number when an XMPP protocol for vCard storage is used (e.g.,..."
>>>>
>>>> How can they do that, given that users are normally responsible for
>>>> maintaining their contacts lists?
>>> When a user uploads their vCard (or, say, modifies it in a web interface), 
>>> the server could apply automated checks or make the "tel" field mandatory.
>>>> In Summary of Suggested Practices:
>>>>
>>>> "  1.   By default, prefer SIP for audio and video, and XMPP for
>>>>        messaging and presence."
>>>>
>>>> At the beginning of the Operation section, this seems to be stated as
>>>> a rule, not as a default (" Audio/video features however, are disabled
>>>> in the XMPP stack..."). Which is it?
>>> I'm not seeing a huge difference here -- the XMPP stack in the CUSAX user 
>>> agent might have audio/video capabilities, but typically those would be 
>>> disabled (disabled by default, but the user might be allowed to turn them 
>>> on for certain kinds of contacts, etc.).
>>>
>>> I suggest this change in the Operation section.
>>>
>>> OLD
>>>    Audio/video features however, are
>>>    disabled in the XMPP stack, so any form of communication based on
>>>    these features (e.g. direct calls, conferences, desktop streaming,
>>>    etc.) will happen over SIP.
>>>
>>> NEW
>>>    Audio/video features however, would typically be
>>>    disabled in the XMPP stack, so any form of communication based on
>>>    these features (e.g. direct calls, conferences, desktop streaming,
>>>    etc.) would happen over SIP.
>>>
>>>> In Security Considerations:
>>>>
>>>> "  ... a CUSAX client might
>>>>   successfully negotiate Transport Layer Security (TLS) [RFC5246] when
>>>>   connecting to the XMPP aspect of the service but not when connecting
>>>>   to the SIP aspect.  Such mismatches could introduce the possibility
>>>>   of downgrade attacks."
>>>>
>>>> I'd say *would* introduce the possibility.
>>> Yes, that's more accurate.
>>>
>>>>  It would seem possible for a
>>>> bad actor to pick up authentication data from the insecure service and
>>>> exploit it to attack the secured service. Therefore,
>>>>
>>>> "  User agent developers and service providers
>>>>   ought to ensure that such mismatches are avoided as much as possible."
>>>>
>>>> seems a bit weak. Shouldn't the client also be *required* to alert the user
>>>> that the session as a whole is not secured?
>>>>
>>> IMHO that would be advisable. Good catch.
>>>
>>> Peter
>>>
>>

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