Hi,

yes, we will revise the draft after the IETF LC and before the IESG review.

Cheers,

Gonzalo

On 25/06/2013 11:19 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
> Great. I expect that we'll submit a revised I-D before IESG review.
> 
> On 6/25/13 2:03 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote:
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> Thanks, that all seems fine in the light of your comments. I would
>> expect to review this as "Ready" when it reaches the IESG agenda.
>>
>> Regards
>>    Brian
>>
>> On 25/06/2013 02:30, Peter Saint-Andre wrote:
>>> On 6/23/13 8:27 PM, Peter Saint-Andre (psaintan) wrote:
>>>> Hi Brian, thanks for the review.
>>>
>>> Here is a provisional diff that addresses your feedback:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/emcho/cusax/commit/1c5e9d681748685360cc6677ea2e369b352e66db#draft-ivov-xmpp-cusax-07.xml
>>>
>>>> On Jun 23, 2013, at 8:01 PM, Brian E Carpenter 
>>>> <[email protected]>
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. For background on
>>>>> Gen-ART, please see the FAQ at
>>>>> <http://wiki.tools.ietf.org/area/gen/trac/wiki/GenArtfaq>.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please resolve these comments along with any other Last Call comments
>>>>> you may receive.
>>>>>
>>>>> Document: draft-ivov-xmpp-cusax-06.txt
>>>>> Reviewer: Brian Carpenter
>>>>> Review Date: 2013-06-24
>>>>> IETF LC End Date: 2013-07-16
>>>>> IESG Telechat date:
>>>>>
>>>>> Summary:  Almost ready
>>>>> --------
>>>>>
>>>>> Comment:
>>>>> --------
>>>>>
>>>>> I have some issues, but I don't know whether to classify any of them as
>>>>> major.
>>>>>
>>>>> Issues:
>>>>> -------
>>>>>
>>>>> In Introduction:
>>>>>
>>>>> "  As a result, a number of adopters have found themselves needing
>>>>>   features that are not offered by any single-protocol solution, but
>>>>>   that separately exist in SIP and XMPP implementations.  The idea of
>>>>>   seamlessly using both protocols together would hence often appeal to
>>>>>   service providers. "
>>>>>
>>>>> A few paragraphs later, you discuss the case of an end user who would like
>>>>> to use SIP and XMPP together with *different* service providers.
>>>> Although that's out of scope for this document. We might address that 
>>>> scenario in a future document.
>>>>
>>>>>  I would suggest
>>>>> ending this sentence with "appeal to service providers and users."
>>>> Good point.
>>>>> "  Finally, this document makes a further simplifying assumption by
>>>>>   discussing only the use of a single client, not use of and
>>>>>   coordination among multiple endpoints controlled by the same user
>>>>>   (e.g., user agents running simultaneously on a laptop computer,
>>>>>   tablet, and mobile phone)."
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmm. Isn't that the normal case today, and your simplifying assumption
>>>>> the exception? It's certainly extremely annoying to have different
>>>>> contacts lists on different devices, for example. This seems like a
>>>>> big gap in the model, with no hints on how it might be filled. (As big
>>>>> as the gap between POP3 and IMAP, in some ways.)
>>>> At least in XMPP, you'd have the same contact list on all of those 
>>>> devices. But we can word this more carefully.
>>>>
>>>>> In Client Bootstrap:
>>>>>
>>>>> "  While it should be possible for CUSAX users to manually configure
>>>>>   their separate SIP and XMPP accounts, service providers offering
>>>>>   CUSAX services to users of dual-stack SIP/XMPP clients ought to
>>>>>   provide means of online provisioning,..."
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. I would anyway expect my CUSAX client to come with a configuration
>>>>> wizard, including a path to the online provisioning if available.
>>>> True.
>>>>> 2. Is there any reason why SIP service providers and XMPP service
>>>>> providers shouldn't individually provide on-line provisioning?
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> (Something like the technology proposed at the aggsrv BoF in Orlando might 
>>>> help, too, but that's just a gleam in the eye at this point.)
>>>>
>>>>>  You're
>>>>> describing something close to a captive-customer scenario,
>>>> We are indeed assuming that a dual-stack user agent would interact with a 
>>>> combined service (i.e., CUSAX on the client side and CUSAX on the server 
>>>> side).  I am not sure that a customer of such a service is a captive.
>>>>
>>>>> rather than
>>>>> encouraging an open approach to provisioning.
>>>> As far as I can see, no open provisioning protocol is available yet. The 
>>>> aforementioned aggsrv approach might fit the bill. It's too early to say, 
>>>> but we can at least mention the possibility that such a technology might 
>>>> be developed in the future.
>>>>
>>>>> The CUSAX client would
>>>>> in any case have to deal with any inconsistencies in provisioning.
>>>> I'm not sure what actionable advice we can provide here, but I'll discuss 
>>>> with with my co-authors.
>>>>> In Server-Side Setup:
>>>>>
>>>>> "  In order for CUSAX to function properly, XMPP service administrators
>>>>>   should make sure that at least one of the vCard [RFC6350] "tel"
>>>>>   fields for each contact is properly populated with a SIP URI or a
>>>>>   phone number when an XMPP protocol for vCard storage is used (e.g.,..."
>>>>>
>>>>> How can they do that, given that users are normally responsible for
>>>>> maintaining their contacts lists?
>>>> When a user uploads their vCard (or, say, modifies it in a web interface), 
>>>> the server could apply automated checks or make the "tel" field mandatory.
>>>>> In Summary of Suggested Practices:
>>>>>
>>>>> "  1.   By default, prefer SIP for audio and video, and XMPP for
>>>>>        messaging and presence."
>>>>>
>>>>> At the beginning of the Operation section, this seems to be stated as
>>>>> a rule, not as a default (" Audio/video features however, are disabled
>>>>> in the XMPP stack..."). Which is it?
>>>> I'm not seeing a huge difference here -- the XMPP stack in the CUSAX user 
>>>> agent might have audio/video capabilities, but typically those would be 
>>>> disabled (disabled by default, but the user might be allowed to turn them 
>>>> on for certain kinds of contacts, etc.).
>>>>
>>>> I suggest this change in the Operation section.
>>>>
>>>> OLD
>>>>    Audio/video features however, are
>>>>    disabled in the XMPP stack, so any form of communication based on
>>>>    these features (e.g. direct calls, conferences, desktop streaming,
>>>>    etc.) will happen over SIP.
>>>>
>>>> NEW
>>>>    Audio/video features however, would typically be
>>>>    disabled in the XMPP stack, so any form of communication based on
>>>>    these features (e.g. direct calls, conferences, desktop streaming,
>>>>    etc.) would happen over SIP.
>>>>
>>>>> In Security Considerations:
>>>>>
>>>>> "  ... a CUSAX client might
>>>>>   successfully negotiate Transport Layer Security (TLS) [RFC5246] when
>>>>>   connecting to the XMPP aspect of the service but not when connecting
>>>>>   to the SIP aspect.  Such mismatches could introduce the possibility
>>>>>   of downgrade attacks."
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd say *would* introduce the possibility.
>>>> Yes, that's more accurate.
>>>>
>>>>>  It would seem possible for a
>>>>> bad actor to pick up authentication data from the insecure service and
>>>>> exploit it to attack the secured service. Therefore,
>>>>>
>>>>> "  User agent developers and service providers
>>>>>   ought to ensure that such mismatches are avoided as much as possible."
>>>>>
>>>>> seems a bit weak. Shouldn't the client also be *required* to alert the 
>>>>> user
>>>>> that the session as a whole is not secured?
>>>>>
>>>> IMHO that would be advisable. Good catch.
>>>>
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>
> 

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