On 10/05/2017 03:26, Brzozowski, John wrote:
> The following needs to be addressed:
> 
> "a BCP is whatever the sitting IESG says is a BCP"
> 
> IMO this is subjective and does not yield a consistent experience across IESG 
> cohorts.  For the IETF and work under the same there must be ONE definition 
> of BCP that can be applied uniformly and consistently over time.

There is:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2026#section-5

I don't see the problem with "best current thinking
on a statement of principle or on what is believed to be the best way
to perform some operations or IETF process function".

Obviously the words "best" and "believed" imply a judgment
call, first by the community and then by the IESG.

  Brian

> 
> John
> +1-484-962-0060
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ronald Bonica <[email protected]>
> Date: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 11:17
> To: Joel Halpern <[email protected]>, John Brzozowski 
> <[email protected]>, Brian Carpenter 
> <[email protected]>, Gunter Van de Velde 
> <[email protected]>, 
> "[email protected]" 
> <[email protected]>, 
> "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: [Gen-art] draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host
> 
>     Joel,
>     
>     I think that you have hit the nail on the head. There is no clearly 
> documented definition of BCP. In reality, the only enforced definition is 
> that "a BCP is whatever the sitting IESG says is a BCP".
>     
>     So, rather than arguing the point, why don't we just ask the IESG?
>     
>     I will update the shepherds write-up noting that there was a question 
> about whether this document should be BCP or INFO and send the document on to 
> the IESG. We will defer to their judgement regarding the label.
>     
>                                                     Ron
>     
>     
>     > -----Original Message-----
>     > From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:[email protected]]
>     > Sent: Monday, May 8, 2017 8:31 PM
>     > To: Brzozowski, John <[email protected]>; Ron Bonica
>     > <[email protected]>; Brian E Carpenter <[email protected]>;
>     > Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
>     > <[email protected]>; draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-
>     > [email protected]; [email protected]
>     > Subject: Re: [Gen-art] draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host
>     > 
>     > John, I absolutely agree that this document describes behavior that is 
> useful.
>     > And it describes that behavior clearly.
>     > One could, on that basis argue for PS status.
>     > I think it better fits as informational.
>     > I do not think it needs to be marked experimental.
>     > I do think it should be published.
>     > 
>     > There are at least 3 definitions of BCP floating around out there.
>     > One clearly does not apply (this is not documenting a widely practiced
>     > current usage as far as I know.)  I understand that BCPs are not 
> restricted to
>     > that.
>     > Another definition is a generally recommended behavior (even if folks 
> do not
>     > actually do it, cf BCP 38). I do not think that definition applies to 
> this
>     > document.
>     > The third, and only enforced definition, is "what the IESG says is a 
> BCP."  Not
>     > a very helpful definition, but it is the actual one in use.
>     > 
>     > Which is why I ended my note by saying that I leave it to the IESG.
>     > 
>     > Yours,
>     > Joel
>     > 
>     > On 5/8/17 8:04 PM, Brzozowski, John wrote:
>     > > Joel,
>     > >
>     > > Please send the criteria for BCP v Informational so we can all 
> evaluate
>     > accordingly.
>     > >
>     > > The document describes the *behavior* that is expected by UEs based on
>     > the network configuration.  This was deliberate, not accidental or 
> assumed.  I
>     > am not sure there is anything to disagree about, data pertaining to 
> device
>     > behavior is clear and well known.
>     > >
>     > > John
>     > > +1-484-962-0060
>     > >
>     > > -----Original Message-----
>     > > From: Joel Halpern <[email protected]>
>     > > Date: Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:57
>     > > To: Ronald Bonica <[email protected]>, Brian Carpenter
>     > > <[email protected]>, Gunter Van de Velde
>     > > <[email protected]>,
>     > > "[email protected]"
>     > > <[email protected]>,
>     > > "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>     > > Subject: Re: [Gen-art] draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host
>     > > Resent-From: <[email protected]>
>     > > Resent-To: <[email protected]>, Gunter Van de Velde
>     > > <[email protected]>, Ronald Bonica
>     > <[email protected]>,
>     > > <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>, <[email protected]>,
>     > > <[email protected]>, Ronald Bonica <[email protected]>
>     > > Resent-Date: Monday, May 8, 2017 at 10:57
>     > >
>     > >     I do not think Brian's proposal addresses the issue.
>     > >     Either this is indeed a Best / Recommended Current Practice, or 
> it isn't.
>     > >     All RFCs are optional.  So saying that this is optional does not 
> seem to
>     > >     help.
>     > >
>     > >     It seems very odd to defend the status on the basis that it was 
> part of
>     > >     a compromise.
>     > >     To me, the document still reads like a conventional informational 
> RFC.
>     > >     To make it a BCP, in my view, it would have to describe the 
> context in
>     > >     which this was actually a recommended behavio.  I doubt we 
> actually
>     > have
>     > >     agreement on that.
>     > >     As far as I can tell, we do have agreement on this description of 
> how to
>     > >     do this when you want to.  Which is what Informational RFCs are 
> for.
>     > >
>     > >     In the end, this is up to the IESG.
>     > >
>     > >     Yours,
>     > >     Joel
>     > >
>     > >     On 5/8/17 10:28 AM, Ron Bonica wrote:
>     > >     > Joel,
>     > >     >
>     > >     > Are you OK with the change that Brian recommends, below?
>     > >     >
>     > >     >                                                       Ron
>     > >     >
>     > >     >
>     > >     >> -----Original Message-----
>     > >     >> From: Ron Bonica
>     > >     >> Sent: Saturday, May 6, 2017 8:36 PM
>     > >     >> To: 'Brian E Carpenter' <[email protected]>; Van De
>     > Velde,
>     > >     >> Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <[email protected]>;
>     > draft-
>     > >     >> [email protected]; 
> [email protected]
>     > >     >> Subject: RE: [Gen-art] 
> draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host
>     > >     >>
>     > >     >> Wfm
>     > >     >>
>     > >     >> Joel, are you ok with this?
>     > >     >>
>     > >     >>                       Ron
>     > >     >>
>     > >     >>
>     > >     >>> -----Original Message-----
>     > >     >>> From: Brian E Carpenter [mailto:[email protected]]
>     > >     >>> Sent: Friday, May 5, 2017 4:06 PM
>     > >     >>> To: Ron Bonica <[email protected]>; Van De Velde, Gunter 
> (Nokia
>     > -
>     > >     >>> BE/Antwerp) <[email protected]>; draft-ietf-v6ops-
>     > >     >> unique-
>     > >     >>> [email protected]; [email protected]
>     > >     >>> Subject: Re: [Gen-art] 
> draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host
>     > >     >>>
>     > >     >>> s/The Best Current Practice documented in this note is/The 
> optional
>     > >     >>> Best Current Practice documented in this note is/
>     > >     >>>
>     > >     >>> Regards
>     > >     >>>    Brian
>     > >     >>>
>     > >     >>> On 06/05/2017 02:58, Ron Bonica wrote:
>     > >     >>>> Gunter,
>     > >     >>>>
>     > >     >>>> Thanks much. A brief chat with Joel may clear this up.
>     > >     >>>>
>     > >     >>>>                                Ron
>     > >     >>>>
>     > >     >>>>
>     > >     >>>>> -----Original Message-----
>     > >     >>>>> From: Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)
>     > >     >>>>> [mailto:[email protected]]
>     > >     >>>>> Sent: Friday, May 5, 2017 2:47 AM
>     > >     >>>>> To: Ron Bonica <[email protected]>;
>     > >     >>>>> draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-
>     > >     >>>>> [email protected]; [email protected]
>     > >     >>>>> Subject: Re: draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-per-host
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>> Hi Ron, Gen-art directorate,
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>> I’m checking with John on the most optimal way forward. 
> While I
>     > am
>     > >     >>>>> not that keen on the BCP status of the document, it was 
> part of a
>     > >     >>>>> motivation to split up the original draft on the subject 
> discussing
>     > >     >>>>> community wifi networks from the address related aspects. 
> John
>     > and
>     > >     >>>>> I will have a discussion on the subject and propose a path 
> to
>     > >     >>>>> resolution of
>     > >     >>> the issue mentioned by gen-art.
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>> G/
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>> On 04/05/2017, 21:57, "Ron Bonica" <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>>     Folks,
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>>     The following is status for 
> draft-ietf-v6ops-unique-ipv6-prefix-
>     > per-
>     > >     >> host:
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>>     - WG last call complete
>     > >     >>>>>     - OPSDIR, GENART and INTDIR reviews complete
>     > >     >>>>>     - write-up complete
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>>     The following issue was raised in the GENART Review:
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>>     " The proposed status seems questionable.  We as a 
> community
>     > >     >>>>> are not recommending that operators assign unique prefixes 
> to
>     > hosts.
>     > >     >>>>> This document is saying "if you want to do that, here is a 
> way,
>     > >     >>>>> using existing tools, to make that work."  The document also
>     > >     >>>>> recommends specific setting of other flags (the O flag in 
> the RA,
>     > >     >>>>> for example) that are not closely coupled to the particular 
> topic.
>     > >     >>>>> This looks like an ordinary Informational RFC.  I would 
> have no
>     > >     >>>>> concern with this
>     > >     >>> being published with that label."
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>>     Could the authors please address this issues. As soon 
> as they
>     > >     >>>>> have done so, we can send it to the IESG for publication.
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>> Ron
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>>
>     > >     >>>>
>     > >     >>>> _______________________________________________
>     > >     >>>> Gen-art mailing list
>     > >     >>>> [email protected]
>     > >     >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art
>     > >     >>>>
>     > >     >
>     > >
>     > >
>     > >
>     
> 

_______________________________________________
Gen-art mailing list
[email protected]
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art

Reply via email to