> On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 10:16, Fred Bauder <fredb...@fairpoint.net> > wrote: > >> >> > My point is this: a significant number of women (current and >> potential >> > editors) don't want to work in a "I like the big tits" atmosphere, >> > whatever >> > was meant by it. Others don't mind. Point is that some *do* mind. >> > > >> So, was it an inane remark or a symptom of an atmosphere? I'm pretty >> sure >> you don't want to see an authoritarian crackdown either. We come down >> heavy on Wikipedia sometimes, but for much more egregious behavior. >> >> The problem is that such moves don't change culture, in fact, may >> sometimes facilitate it, if traction can be gained by aggrieved users >> who >> feel they are being treated unfairly. > > > I see it as an inane remark that's symptomatic of the culture, in the > sense > that the poster thought it appropriate to post it. > > Moving away from discussing this image now, to the broader issue, we do > see > a fair number of comments like that on Wikipedia, and letting them pass > without comment simply means they'll never stop. > > We had a situation recently where we were discussing a BLP, and part of > the > content was that the woman had experienced a serious sexual assault. In > the > course of discussing how to approach it, a couple of remarks were made > that > tended to downplay what had happened to her, and one person -- in a > different section on the talk page -- commented on how attractive she > was, > and how he wanted to have her babies. > > I was so disgusted by this that I felt (and to some extent still feel) > that > I didn't want to be involved in the project anymore, because why am I > wasting my time in that kind of atmosphere? I felt that it said something > about me, rather than about them. > > I also had to decide whether to say something, or let it lie, and if I > did > say something, I had to make sure I was polite and circumspect, rather > than > screaming it from the rooftops, which is what I wanted to do. And it > suddenly felt like nothing had changed in the last 40 years, that these > remarks still appear, and that women are still made to feel bad if they > challenge them. And if we do challenge them, must be extra polite about > it. > Not make a fuss. > > So that felt kind of depressing. > > Sarah
Now we're getting down to a serious discussion. The actual horns of the dilemma a Wikipedia administrator is in. In a way being limited to text fails to communicate the immediate expression of disgust that would happen in a face-to-face situation, so there is a failure to communicate feedback effectively. A polite note fails. Fred _______________________________________________ Gendergap mailing list Gendergap@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
