Somehow you appear to think that equality and sameness are synonymous.
It is not possible to close the gender gap by defining male and female
as the same. This kind of thinking will drive the wedge deeper because
each will be invalidated for who they are.
________________________________
From: "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 6:00 AM
Subject: Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 10
Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to
[email protected]
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[email protected]
You can reach the person managing the list at
[email protected]
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Gendergap digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9 (john allyn)
2. Re: Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9 (Emily Monroe)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 14:21:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: john allyn <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Somehow you appear to think that equality and sameness are synonymous. It is
not possible to close the gender gap by defining male and female as the same.
This kind of thinking will drive the wedge deeper because each will be
invalidated for who they are.
________________________________
From: "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, September 16, 2013 6:00 AM
Subject: Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9
Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to
[email protected]
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
[email protected]
You can reach the person managing the list at
[email protected]
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Gendergap digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: Archaic gendered terminology (Lane Rasberry)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 15:43:47 -0400
From: Lane Rasberry <[email protected]>
To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the
participation of women within Wikimedia projects."
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Archaic gendered terminology
Message-ID:
<cajb6kh5slckco9bfb4lhjcf+njkacmno6xnk+mk0ehkuaez...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Hello,
I expect that many people will continue to use the term "actress" for
females in the profession. I notice that the Amy Johnson discussion raises
that.
A couple of years ago I got to review an elementary English textbook being
distributed in very large numbers in North India. It was an original work
seemingly derived from public domain content and had a section on gendered
nouns, including "negro" and "negress". I looked at the time for a style
guide on best practices for gendered term and I could not find anything
clear when I looked then, but obviously there is bad information to be
found online among the public domain texts and it really grated on me that
new print works were being distributed to teach children such things.
We might not be so far from the day when someone could publish a Wikipedia
Manual of Style and expect it to be an authoritative text. I am not sure
what the right answer is in this case but whatever you find please consider
noting on the manual of style because this question will come up again.
Thanks for sharing.
On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Gobonobo <[email protected]> wrote:
> I've been going through a lot of historical biographies lately and am
> surprised to see how often archaic gendered terms such as poetess,
> sculptress, and aviatrix crop up in Wikipedia articles. I know some of
> these come from the older sources such as the 1911 Britannica, but in other
> cases their inclusion is the result of decisions being made by editors.
> There's currently a discussion on [[Talk:Amy Johnson]] over whether she
> should be referred to as an aviatrix, for instance.
>
> I'm wondering how this has been dealt with previously and if there are
> specific policies surrounding such uses. I've found the essays
> [[Wikipedia:Gender-neutral language]] and [[Wikipedia:Use modern language]]
> and note that [[WP:MOS]] says "use gender-neutral language where this can
> be done with clarity and precision". It seems as if despite these fairly
> clear precepts, the use of these terms persists.
>
> Are there any archaic terms where it has been broadly agreed that using
> them is not encyclopedic? I would be much obliged if anyone could point me
> to previous discussions about this.
>
> ~Gobonobo
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Gendergap mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/gendergap<https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap>
>
--
Lane Rasberry
206.801.0814
[email protected]
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/attachments/20130915/e13270c7/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Gendergap mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
End of Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9
****************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/attachments/20130916/e7e27c82/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 17:57:21 -0500
From: Emily Monroe <[email protected]>
To: john allyn <[email protected]>, "Addressing gender equity and
exploring ways to increase the participation of women within Wikimedia
projects." <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9
Message-ID:
<cadont8sze7zkpscbj9mn3wedncaxbmgynbsgspqu4g-e4u4...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
I'm not sure how anybody implied that males and females are the same. The
fact is,"-tress" words are becoming archiac, and Wikipedia needs to reflect
that.
On Monday, September 16, 2013, john allyn wrote:
> Somehow you appear to think that equality and sameness are synonymous. It
> is not possible to close the gender gap by defining male and female as the
> same. This kind of thinking will drive the wedge deeper because each will
> be invalidated for who they are.
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "[email protected] <javascript:_e({},
> 'cvml', '[email protected]');>" <
> [email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> '[email protected]');>>
> *To:* [email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> '[email protected]');>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 16, 2013 6:00 AM
> *Subject:* Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9
>
> Send Gendergap mailing list submissions to
> [email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> '[email protected]');>
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> [email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> '[email protected]');>
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> [email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> '[email protected]');>
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Gendergap digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Archaic gendered terminology (Lane Rasberry)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 15:43:47 -0400
> From: Lane Rasberry <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> '[email protected]');>>
> To: "Addressing gender equity and exploring ways to increase the
> participation of women within Wikimedia projects."
> <[email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> '[email protected]');>>
> Subject: Re: [Gendergap] Archaic gendered terminology
> Message-ID:
>
><cajb6kh5slckco9bfb4lhjcf+njkacmno6xnk+mk0ehkuaez...@mail.gmail.com<javascript:_e({},
> 'cvml', '[email protected]');>
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello,
>
> I expect that many people will continue to use the term "actress" for
> females in the profession. I notice that the Amy Johnson discussion raises
> that.
>
> A couple of years ago I got to review an elementary English textbook being
> distributed in very large numbers in North India. It was an original work
> seemingly derived from public domain content and had a section on gendered
> nouns, including "negro" and "negress". I looked at the time for a style
> guide on best practices for gendered term and I could not find anything
> clear when I looked then, but obviously there is bad information to be
> found online among the public domain texts and it really grated on me that
> new print works were being distributed to teach children such things.
>
> We might not be so far from the day when someone could publish a Wikipedia
> Manual of Style and expect it to be an authoritative text. I am not sure
> what the right answer is in this case but whatever you find please consider
> noting on the manual of style because this question will come up again.
>
> Thanks for sharing.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 13, 2013 at 7:31 PM, Gobonobo
> <[email protected]<javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', '[email protected]');>>
> wrote:
>
> > I've been going through a lot of historical biographies lately and am
> > surprised to see how often archaic gendered terms such as poetess,
> > sculptress, and aviatrix crop up in Wikipedia articles. I know some of
> > these come from the older sources such as the 1911 Britannica, but in
> other
> > cases their inclusion is the result of decisions being made by editors.
> > There's currently a discussion on [[Talk:Amy Johnson]] over whether she
> > should be referred to as an aviatrix, for instance.
> >
> > I'm wondering how this has been dealt with previously and if there are
> > specific policies surrounding such uses. I've found the essays
> > [[Wikipedia:Gender-neutral language]] and [[Wikipedia:Use modern
> language]]
> > and note that [[WP:MOS]] says "use gender-neutral language where this can
> > be done with clarity and precision". It seems as if despite these fairly
> > clear precepts, the use of these terms persists.
> >
> > Are there any archaic terms where it has been broadly agreed that using
> > them is not encyclopedic? I would be much obliged if anyone could point
> me
> > to previous discussions about this.
> >
> > ~Gobonobo
> >
> > ______________________________**_________________
> > Gendergap mailing list
> > [email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> '[email protected]');>
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/**mailman/listinfo/gendergap<
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap>
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Lane Rasberry
> 206.801.0814
> [email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> '[email protected]');>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/attachments/20130915/e13270c7/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Gendergap mailing list
> [email protected] <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml',
> '[email protected]');>
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
>
>
> End of Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 9
> ****************************************
>
>
>
--
From,
Emily
Sent from my iPad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
<http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/attachments/20130916/2dad0315/attachment-0001.html>
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
Gendergap mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
End of Gendergap Digest, Vol 32, Issue 10
*****************************************_______________________________________________
Gendergap mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/gendergap
