Except that AR was not setup as a random bunch of servers, it was set to showcase those using SpacialAudio Solutions software and listed to show the ones with the highest listener base first.
You could also say the google listings could be done via random but would you then get the desired result? On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 12:10 AM, K.T. Productions <[email protected]> wrote: > But on the other hand a random listing would have saved tons of money and > programmer hours because there would b no incentive to cheat the system.. > > But nice post. Very informitive. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > > Dave St John > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 11:46 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [General-discussion] AudioRealm Station Listing Question > > This is an age old argument that pre-dates the audiorealm era. > > Back in the day you only had 2 yp's yp.shoutcast.net and yp.icecast.org > Big brother shoutcast was closed source, and had a decent grip on > preventing cheating, even today that it has its shortcomings wich are > extremely undesirable, look at all the problems it has now, and yet > cheating still occurs and is not as updated as audiorealm.com is. > > Icecast on the other hand is open source, therefore cheating was > extremely easy, hack the source code, compile server, and your station > was God Almighty, at the top of the list, it got so bad i remember > yp.icecast.org was not even in working order for many months until the > official release of icecast2 and a new yp done by oddsock was released. > With that new yp came a completely new algorithm in deciding station > rank. Of course you had the stations over there in there community > asking what of top listener ranks, the reply was met firmly with a > resounding response of "No More Cheating!! Thus no more top listener > ranks!". > While that argument is good for stations who always find themselves at > the bottom of the lists, the are now somewhere in between with everyone > else, which can be confusing for listeners. > > Now from a listener perspective i only want to listen to stations who > provide complete, top notch programing, and usualy those are the ones > with the most listeners, thus i find myself going to audiorealm and > shoutcast.com looking for stations to listen too, rarely do i visit > icecast.org to find stations because of the way the stations are listed, > You can spend alot of time finding a good station to tune in too, and i > realy dont want to do that, i want to find a good station in a hurry, > crank it up and move on, Im sure most listeners have the same habits as > well, just ask them. > > Now from a large station owners perspective, is it not fair for my > station who i have worked extremely hard for, day in and day out, money > spent, foot work treaded, contacts made to spread the word of my > station, not be listed at the top because i have earned those listeners? > because of that hard work, in my eyes i feel that a top listing is > earned fairly because ive put my time in garnering a large listener base. > > From a small station owners perspective, when i see the top stations > with allot of listeners at the top of the yp, i realize that i may > not be doing enough to get the listenership that i want for my station, > so i strive and work harder to achieve that, knowing that full well > in due time i will gain the listenership i so desire. > > > No from a network admin prespective, i know we have put everything in > place to prevent fake stats, proper calculations to post > the proper numbers as our streamads system counts on it, as well as > preventive measures to counter cheating mechanisms. > > > Thats my $6.00 worth > > K.T. Productions wrote: > > The only fair way is a totally random listing. Randomly generated on each > > load. > > That way no one is favored and everyone gets a chance. We all paid the > same > > amount for the software and should all be treated equally. > > > > Just my two cents. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > > BDF Electronics > > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:56 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [General-discussion] AudioRealm Station Listing Question > > > > Chris, > > > > Thanks for the response. > > > > I'm sure I'm not telling anyone anything new but the problem with this > > approach is that it has the potential for abuse in that broadcaster's can > > set up multiple statistical relays for his stream(s) (and even anyone > > else's) and the sum of all the numbers get added together which pushes the > > > station further up the directory of stations list. > > > > I don't know if its possible but there ought to be a way for SAM to create > a > > > > verifiable means to determine the actual number of listeners to each > stream > > by adding up all the bits and dividing by the bitrate. That would require > > > some kind of coordination with the stream hosting server if SAM wasn't > > working from the server like 1.FM does. > > > > If that's not possible, I would suggest A/R consider breaking the > directory > > into primary genre and then organizing them in either alphabetical or A/R > > number order in each genre like iTunes does. The listing order could be > > rotated from month to month; low to high and high to low in order to make > > things more fair. > > > > Ciao, > > Tony > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Christopher A. Haslage" <[email protected]> > > To: <[email protected]> > > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 8:08 PM > > Subject: RE: [General-discussion] AudioRealm Station Listing Question > > > > > >> That is correct, any of our broadcasting products. SAM, SOS or > >> SimpleCast. > >> > >> However, the way it lists is determined on how your set up your > SpacialNet > >> under "My Stations". > >> > >> Chris > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >> BDF Electronics > >> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 8:09 PM > >> To: [email protected]; > >> [email protected] > >> Subject: Re: [General-discussion] AudioRealm Station Listing Question > >> > >> I was under the impression that the audiorealm listner numbers came from > >> the > >> > >> statistic relays in each SAM broadcasters' setup? > >> > >> Is that right? If not, when did it change? > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Tony > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> General-discussion mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://mailman.spacialaudio.com/mailman/listinfo/general-discussion > >> > >> TO unsubscribe to this list, simply send a blank email to > >> [email protected] > >> > >> with the subject > >> 'unsubscribe' > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> General-discussion mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://mailman.spacialaudio.com/mailman/listinfo/general-discussion > >> > >> TO unsubscribe to this list, simply send a blank email to > >> [email protected] > >> > >> with the subject > >> 'unsubscribe' > > > > _______________________________________________ > > General-discussion mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mailman.spacialaudio.com/mailman/listinfo/general-discussion > > > > TO unsubscribe to this list, simply send a blank email to > > [email protected] > > > > with the subject > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5 - Release Date: 4/2/2008 12:00 > > AM > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5 - Release Date: 4/2/2008 12:00 > > AM > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > General-discussion mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mailman.spacialaudio.com/mailman/listinfo/general-discussion > > > > TO unsubscribe to this list, simply send a blank email to > > [email protected] > > > > with the subject > > 'unsubscribe' > > -- > ^^_ > o" )~ > '''' > > > David St. John > Spacial Audio Network Administrator/Developer > > Spacial Audio Solutions, LLC > 200 E 6th st > SUITE 220 > Austin, TX 78701 > > http://www.spacialaudio.com > http://www.spacialnet.com > http://www.audiorealm.com > _______________________________________________ > General-discussion mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.spacialaudio.com/mailman/listinfo/general-discussion > > TO unsubscribe to this list, simply send a blank email to > [email protected] > > with the subject > 'unsubscribe' > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5 - Release Date: 4/2/2008 12:00 > AM > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5 - Release Date: 4/2/2008 12:00 > AM > > > _______________________________________________ > General-discussion mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.spacialaudio.com/mailman/listinfo/general-discussion > > TO unsubscribe to this list, simply send a blank email to > [email protected] > > with the subject > 'unsubscribe' > -- James Henline. Help Desk Manager Development Manager Spacial Audio Solutions LLC. 972-739-6420 ext: 110 www.audiorealm.com www.spacialnet.com www.spacialaudio.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email, including any attachments, contains information from SpacialAudio Solutions LLC., which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. From [email protected] Sat Apr 5 07:56:35 2008 From: [email protected] (Robert Stukowski) Date: Sat Apr 5 08:52:54 2008 Subject: [General-discussion] AudioRealm Station Listing Question In-Reply-To: <[email protected]> References: <[email protected]> <004b01c895e8$082123c0$2f01a...@a1040n> <00af01c895f0$6c2da700$4488f5...@com> <006101c896b7$c63988a0$2f01a...@a1040n> <01d301c896d2$ddd96690$998c33...@net> <[email protected]> <000301c896db$5308d0b0$f91a72...@net> <[email protected]> Message-ID: <11e401c89714$19088cf0$4b19a6...@net> Google lists according to how many other sites link to the site in question. That may be the best way to do listing: let the listeners decided who gets ranked where. Have a way for listeners to vote. ------------------- Robert Toon Radio http://www.toonradio.net [email protected] > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of James Henline > Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2008 2:53 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [General-discussion] AudioRealm Station Listing > Question > > Except that AR was not setup as a random bunch of servers, it was > set > to showcase those using SpacialAudio Solutions software and > listed to > show the ones with the highest listener base first. > > You could also say the google listings could be done via random > but > would you then get the desired result? > > On Sat, Apr 5, 2008 at 12:10 AM, K.T. Productions > <[email protected]> wrote: > > But on the other hand a random listing would have saved tons of > money and > > programmer hours because there would b no incentive to cheat > the system.. > > > > But nice post. Very informitive. > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of > > > > > > Dave St John > > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 11:46 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [General-discussion] AudioRealm Station Listing > Question > > > > This is an age old argument that pre-dates the audiorealm era. > > > > Back in the day you only had 2 yp's yp.shoutcast.net and > yp.icecast.org > > Big brother shoutcast was closed source, and had a decent grip > on > > preventing cheating, even today that it has its shortcomings > wich are > > extremely undesirable, look at all the problems it has now, > and yet > > cheating still occurs and is not as updated as audiorealm.com > is. > > > > Icecast on the other hand is open source, therefore cheating > was > > extremely easy, hack the source code, compile server, and your > station > > was God Almighty, at the top of the list, it got so bad i > remember > > yp.icecast.org was not even in working order for many months > until the > > official release of icecast2 and a new yp done by oddsock was > released. > > With that new yp came a completely new algorithm in deciding > station > > rank. Of course you had the stations over there in there > community > > asking what of top listener ranks, the reply was met firmly > with a > > resounding response of "No More Cheating!! Thus no more top > listener > > ranks!". > > While that argument is good for stations who always find > themselves at > > the bottom of the lists, the are now somewhere in between with > everyone > > else, which can be confusing for listeners. > > > > Now from a listener perspective i only want to listen to > stations who > > provide complete, top notch programing, and usualy those are > the ones > > with the most listeners, thus i find myself going to > audiorealm and > > shoutcast.com looking for stations to listen too, rarely do i > visit > > icecast.org to find stations because of the way the stations > are listed, > > You can spend alot of time finding a good station to tune in > too, and i > > realy dont want to do that, i want to find a good station in a > hurry, > > crank it up and move on, Im sure most listeners have the same > habits as > > well, just ask them. > > > > Now from a large station owners perspective, is it not fair > for my > > station who i have worked extremely hard for, day in and day > out, money > > spent, foot work treaded, contacts made to spread the word of > my > > station, not be listed at the top because i have earned those > listeners? > > because of that hard work, in my eyes i feel that a top > listing is > > earned fairly because ive put my time in garnering a large > listener base. > > > > From a small station owners perspective, when i see the top > stations > > with allot of listeners at the top of the yp, i realize that i > may > > not be doing enough to get the listenership that i want for my > station, > > so i strive and work harder to achieve that, knowing that full > well > > in due time i will gain the listenership i so desire. > > > > > > No from a network admin prespective, i know we have put > everything in > > place to prevent fake stats, proper calculations to post > > the proper numbers as our streamads system counts on it, as > well as > > preventive measures to counter cheating mechanisms. > > > > > > Thats my $6.00 worth > > > > K.T. Productions wrote: > > > The only fair way is a totally random listing. Randomly > generated on each > > > load. > > > That way no one is favored and everyone gets a chance. We > all paid the > > same > > > amount for the software and should all be treated equally. > > > > > > Just my two cents. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [email protected] > > > [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of > > > BDF Electronics > > > Sent: Friday, April 04, 2008 7:56 PM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: Re: [General-discussion] AudioRealm Station Listing > Question > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > Thanks for the response. > > > > > > I'm sure I'm not telling anyone anything new but the problem > with this > > > approach is that it has the potential for abuse in that > broadcaster's can > > > set up multiple statistical relays for his stream(s) (and > even anyone > > > else's) and the sum of all the numbers get added together > which pushes the > > > > > station further up the directory of stations list. > > > > > > I don't know if its possible but there ought to be a way for > SAM to create > > a > > > > > > verifiable means to determine the actual number of listeners > to each > > stream > > > by adding up all the bits and dividing by the bitrate. That > would require > > > > > some kind of coordination with the stream hosting server if > SAM wasn't > > > working from the server like 1.FM does. > > > > > > If that's not possible, I would suggest A/R consider > breaking the > > directory > > > into primary genre and then organizing them in either > alphabetical or A/R > > > number order in each genre like iTunes does. The listing > order could be > > > rotated from month to month; low to high and high to low in > order to make > > > things more fair. > > > > > > Ciao, > > > Tony > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Christopher A. Haslage" <[email protected]> > > > To: <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 8:08 PM > > > Subject: RE: [General-discussion] AudioRealm Station Listing > Question > > > > > > > > >> That is correct, any of our broadcasting products. SAM, > SOS or > > >> SimpleCast. > > >> > > >> However, the way it lists is determined on how your set up > your > > SpacialNet > > >> under "My Stations". > > >> > > >> Chris > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: [email protected] > > >> [mailto:general-discussion- > [email protected]] On Behalf Of > > >> BDF Electronics > > >> Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2008 8:09 PM > > >> To: [email protected]; > > >> [email protected] > > >> Subject: Re: [General-discussion] AudioRealm Station > Listing Question > > >> > > >> I was under the impression that the audiorealm listner > numbers came from > > >> the > > >> > > >> statistic relays in each SAM broadcasters' setup? > > >> > > >> Is that right? If not, when did it change? > > >> > > >> Cheers, > > >> Tony > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> General-discussion mailing list > > >> [email protected] > > >> http://mailman.spacialaudio.com/mailman/listinfo/general- > discussion > > >> > > >> TO unsubscribe to this list, simply send a blank email to > > >> [email protected] > > >> > > >> with the subject > > >> 'unsubscribe' > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> General-discussion mailing list > > >> [email protected] > > >> http://mailman.spacialaudio.com/mailman/listinfo/general- > discussion > > >> > > >> TO unsubscribe to this list, simply send a blank email to > > >> [email protected] > > >> > > >> with the subject > > >> 'unsubscribe' > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > General-discussion mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://mailman.spacialaudio.com/mailman/listinfo/general- > discussion > > > > > > TO unsubscribe to this list, simply send a blank email to > > > [email protected] > > > > > > with the subject > > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG. > > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5 - Release Date: > 4/2/2008 12:00 > > > AM > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG. > > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5 - Release Date: > 4/2/2008 12:00 > > > AM > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > General-discussion mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://mailman.spacialaudio.com/mailman/listinfo/general- > discussion > > > > > > TO unsubscribe to this list, simply send a blank email to > > > [email protected] > > > > > > with the subject > > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > -- > > ^^_ > > o" )~ > > '''' > > > > > > David St. John > > Spacial Audio Network Administrator/Developer > > > > Spacial Audio Solutions, LLC > > 200 E 6th st > > SUITE 220 > > Austin, TX 78701 > > > > http://www.spacialaudio.com > > http://www.spacialnet.com > > http://www.audiorealm.com > > _______________________________________________ > > General-discussion mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mailman.spacialaudio.com/mailman/listinfo/general- > discussion > > > > TO unsubscribe to this list, simply send a blank email to > > [email protected] > > > > with the subject > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5 - Release Date: > 4/2/2008 12:00 > > AM > > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5 - Release Date: > 4/2/2008 12:00 > > AM > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > General-discussion mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://mailman.spacialaudio.com/mailman/listinfo/general- > discussion > > > > TO unsubscribe to this list, simply send a blank email to > > [email protected] > > > > with the subject > > 'unsubscribe' > > > > > > -- > James Henline. > Help Desk Manager > Development Manager > Spacial Audio Solutions LLC. > 972-739-6420 ext: 110 > www.audiorealm.com > www.spacialnet.com > www.spacialaudio.com > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email, including any attachments, > contains information from SpacialAudio Solutions LLC., which may > be > confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for > the > use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the > intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, > distribution or use of the contents of this information is > prohibited. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the > sender > immediately by "reply to sender only" message and destroy all > electronic and hard copies of the communication, including > attachments. > _______________________________________________ > General-discussion mailing list > [email protected] > http://mailman.spacialaudio.com/mailman/listinfo/general- > discussion > > TO unsubscribe to this list, simply send a blank email to > [email protected] > > with the subject > 'unsubscribe' > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1359 - Release Date: > 4/4/2008 8:23 AM > No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.5/1359 - Release Date: 4/4/2008 8:23 AM
