--=-o87KkZF/NR6o1hpV8imr
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I admit that I haven't been to any meetings in well over a year and
haven't witnessed the newbie neglect, but what you're describing doesn't
seem like a problem
best solved by an alternative organization. I think the problem can be
solved with a little restructuring. One thing that the Houston LUG does
here is have weekly
lab-style meetings where newbies are free to bring their machines (or
just their heads filled with questions) and the more experienced members
help them out. HLUG
has the advantage of being able to use the facilities of HAL-PC which
has a computer lab at their disposable with internet connectivity, PCs,
etc, so I don't know if
BRLUG can work out a similar arrangement.
Well, let me take a minute and throw this in. HAL-PC is an organization
here similar to the Clickers. In fact, HAL-PC uses HLUG as it's Linux
SIG, so I guess that's
sort of like what's being discussed here. The difference in HLUG to the
other SIGS of HAL-PC is that it's organized more like a LUG, and dues
aren't required. That's
an arrangement that's worked out well here, and I think something
similar could work for BRLUG.
I just don't think it's in the spirit of Linux to have certain types of
meetings where individuals are excluded because they do not belong to a
certain group. I think there
are members of BRLUG who have the capacity to contribute to a group with
a focus on Linux, but who would choose not to pay dues to an
organization that promotes
the use of Microsoft and other closed-source software. I understand you
want to gain a bigger audience, but you're running the risk of shutting
a lot of contributing
minds out.
-Tim
On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 11:14, John Hebert wrote:
Big difference. Newbies aren't getting the support they want and
need in BRLUG meetings as the level of technical expertise there is
usually way over their heads. I know this and see this at every
meeting and try to address it when I speak, but inherent geekoid
need to massage the ego and impress others with their knowledge
usually holds sway.
I'm not trying to insult you Tim (I have a lot of respect for you in
fact), but you haven't been to a BRLUG meeting in a while. There are
_many_ newbies on this list and that attend meetings that are afraid
to ask for help for fear of appearing ignorant. I _know_ that they
should not feel afraid to ask what we would consider simple
questions, but the basic fact is that they do feel this way. I
started the BRLUG Newbie Hour to try and address this need, but only
a few newbies would show up or they needed a lot more help than I
(and Nate and a few others) could give them in an hour.
Clickers is an organization that is primarily made of newbies,
whereas BRLUG is made up of somewhat experienced geeks at least the
ones that contribute regularly on the list and in the meetings. So,
it is not pointless to have a Clickers Linux SIG. In fact, I'd like
to turn your question around and ask you: What's the harm?
John Hebert
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Fournet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Clickers wants to start a Linux SIG was RE:
[brluglist] Re: meeti ng locations?
What's the difference between a Clickers Linux SIG, and the
Clickers members attending BRLUG
meetings? There are of course no extra dues to pay, and it sure
beats doubling up on presentations.
Just seems kind of pointless to double up on effort and
segregate the members.
-Tim
On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 10:18, John Hebert wrote:
Agreed, but I think the opportunity available is that Sue Smith
would like
to push Linux more within Clickers, not that Clickers wants us to
become a
SIG within their organization. At the last meeting, Choppy, Sue and
me spoke
for a few minutes about helping them start a Linux SIG. She said
that more
and more people are asking about Linux and want to know more about
Linux. I
volunteered to help.
What Sue Smith and Choppy asked for is simple: Clickers wants to
know more
about Linux and they need our help and expertise.
I agree completely that BRLUG stay a separate organization, but I
also think
a Clickers Linux SIG would only be a good thing. Let's help em out.
John Hebert
-----Original Message-----
From: Dustin Puryear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:11 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [brluglist] Re: meeting locations?
At 08:22 AM 1/17/2002 -0600, you wrote:
>at Clickers for later spring. I would like to see a cordial
relationship
and
>cooperation, but there is no reason not to remain an independent
organization.
>We're both non-profits and can share our skills and maybe even
connections
>to the benefit of both.
The idea of BRLUG becoming a SIG within Clickers has been suggested
before.
However, I do not see any advantage to becoming a SIG. In addition,
members
would then have to pay Clickers dues. No worries--BRLUG will remain
separate.
Regards, Dustin
---
Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Information Systems Consultant
http://members.telocity.com/~dpuryear
In the beginning the Universe was created.
This has been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
================================================
BRLUG - The Baton Rouge Linux User Group
Visit http://www.brlug.net for more information.
Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to change
your subscription information.
================================================
================================================
BRLUG - The Baton Rouge Linux User Group
Visit http://www.brlug.net for more information.
Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to change
your subscription information.
================================================
--=-o87KkZF/NR6o1hpV8imr
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 TRANSITIONAL//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; CHARSET=UTF-8">
<META NAME="GENERATOR" CONTENT="GtkHTML/1.0.0">
</HEAD>
<BODY>
I admit that I haven't been to any meetings in well over a year and haven't
witnessed the newbie neglect, but what you're describing doesn't seem like a
problem
<BR>
best solved by an alternative organization. I think the problem can be solved
with a little restructuring. One thing that the Houston LUG does here is have
weekly
<BR>
lab-style meetings where newbies are free to bring their machines (or just
their heads filled with questions) and the more experienced members help them
out. HLUG
<BR>
has the advantage of being able to use the facilities of HAL-PC which has a
computer lab at their disposable with internet connectivity, PCs, etc, so I
don't know if
<BR>
BRLUG can work out a similar arrangement.
<BR>
<BR>
Well, let me take a minute and throw this in. HAL-PC is an organization here
similar to the Clickers. In fact, HAL-PC uses HLUG as it's Linux SIG, so I
guess that's
<BR>
sort of like what's being discussed here. The difference in HLUG to the other
SIGS of HAL-PC is that it's organized more like a LUG, and dues aren't
required. That's
<BR>
an arrangement that's worked out well here, and I think something similar could
work for BRLUG.
<BR>
<BR>
I just don't think it's in the spirit of Linux to have certain types of
meetings where individuals are excluded because they do not belong to a certain
group. I think there
<BR>
are members of BRLUG who have the capacity to contribute to a group with a
focus on Linux, but who would choose not to pay dues to an organization that
promotes
<BR>
the use of Microsoft and other closed-source software. I understand you want to
gain a bigger audience, but you're running the risk of shutting a lot of
contributing
<BR>
minds out.
<BR>
<BR>
-Tim
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 11:14, John Hebert wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<FONT COLOR="#0000ff"><FONT SIZE="2"><I>Big difference. Newbies aren't
getting the support they want and need in BRLUG meetings as the level of
technical expertise there is usually way over their heads. I know this and see
this at every meeting and try to address it when I speak, but inherent geekoid
need to massage the ego and impress others with their knowledge usually holds
sway.</FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I> </FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#0000ff"><FONT SIZE="2"><I>I'm not trying to insult you Tim (I
have a lot of respect for you in fact), but you haven't been to a BRLUG meeting
in a while. There are _many_ newbies on this list and that attend meetings that
are afraid to ask for help for fear of appearing ignorant. I _know_ that they
should not feel afraid to ask what we would consider simple questions, but the
basic fact is that they do feel this way. I started the BRLUG Newbie Hour to
try and address this need, but only a few newbies would show up or they needed
a lot more help than I (and Nate and a few others) could give them in an
hour.</FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I> </FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#0000ff"><FONT SIZE="2"><I>Clickers is an organization that is
primarily made of newbies, whereas BRLUG is made up of somewhat experienced
geeks at least the ones that contribute regularly on the list and in the
meetings. So, it is not pointless to have a Clickers Linux SIG. In fact, I'd
like to turn your question around and ask you: What's the
harm?</FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I> </FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#0000ff"><FONT SIZE="2"><I>John Hebert</FONT></FONT></I>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="2"><I>-----Original
Message-----</FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT
SIZE="2"><B><I>From:</FONT></FONT></B></I><FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT
SIZE="2"><I> Tim Fournet [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]</FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT
SIZE="2"><B><I>Sent:</FONT></FONT></B></I><FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT
SIZE="2"><I> Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:59 AM</FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT
SIZE="2"><B><I>To:</FONT></FONT></B></I><FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT
SIZE="2"><I> [EMAIL PROTECTED]</FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT
SIZE="2"><B><I>Subject:</FONT></FONT></B></I><FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT
SIZE="2"><I> Re: Clickers wants to start a Linux SIG was RE: [brluglist] Re:
meeti ng locations?</FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="2"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>What's the difference between a
Clickers Linux SIG, and the Clickers members attending BRLUG </FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>meetings? There are of course
no extra dues to pay, and it sure beats doubling up on presentations.
</FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>Just seems kind of pointless to
double up on effort and segregate the members. </FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>-Tim </FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<BR>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>On Thu, 2002-01-17 at 10:18,
John Hebert wrote: </FONT></FONT></I>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<PRE><FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>Agreed, but I think the
opportunity available is that Sue Smith would like</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>to push Linux more within Clickers, not
that Clickers wants us to become a</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>SIG within their organization. At the
last meeting, Choppy, Sue and me spoke</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>for a few minutes about helping them
start a Linux SIG. She said that more</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>and more people are asking about Linux
and want to know more about Linux. I</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>volunteered to help.</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>What Sue Smith and Choppy asked for is
simple: Clickers wants to know more</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>about Linux and they need our help and
expertise.</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>I agree completely that BRLUG stay a
separate organization, but I also think</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>a Clickers Linux SIG would only be a
good thing. Let's help em out.</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>John Hebert</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>-----Original
Message-----</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>From: Dustin Puryear [mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 10:11
AM</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>Subject: Re: [brluglist] Re: meeting
locations?</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>At 08:22 AM 1/17/2002 -0600, you
wrote:</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>>at Clickers for later spring. I
would like to see a cordial relationship</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>and</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>>cooperation, but there is no reason
not to remain an independent</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>organization.</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>>We're both non-profits and can
share our skills and maybe even connections</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>>to the benefit of
both.</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>The idea of BRLUG becoming a SIG within
Clickers has been suggested before. </FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>However, I do not see any advantage to
becoming a SIG. In addition, members </FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>would then have to pay Clickers dues.
No worries--BRLUG will remain</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>separate.</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>Regards, Dustin</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>---</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL
PROTECTED]></FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>Information Systems
Consultant</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT
SIZE="3"><I>http://members.telocity.com/~dpuryear</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>In the beginning the Universe was
created.</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>This has been widely regarded as a bad
move. - Douglas Adams</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I></FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT
SIZE="3"><I>================================================</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>BRLUG - The Baton Rouge Linux User
Group</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>Visit http://www.brlug.net for more
information.</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to
change</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>your subscription
information.</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT
SIZE="3"><I>================================================</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT
SIZE="3"><I>================================================</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>BRLUG - The Baton Rouge Linux User
Group</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>Visit http://www.brlug.net for more
information.</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to
change</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT SIZE="3"><I>your subscription
information.</FONT></FONT></I>
<FONT COLOR="#737373"><FONT
SIZE="3"><I>================================================</FONT></FONT></I>
</PRE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
</BLOCKQUOTE>
</BODY>
</HTML>
--=-o87KkZF/NR6o1hpV8imr--
================================================
BRLUG - The Baton Rouge Linux User Group
Visit http://www.brlug.net for more information.
Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] to change
your subscription information.
================================================
