Please do intrude. If we didn't want anyone to intrude, we wouldn't be having this discussion on a public forum. :)
Some background: The discussion started off because I mentioned that the fact that my company is moving away from VB and towards Java, and that I considered it a better direction. There are a lot of advantages, such as the fact that Java runs on a variety of platforms: Windows, Linux, AIX, etc., and even BSD now! See http://www.freebsd.org/java/ for more info. There are other advantages such as a mature set of free tools for various needs: http://jakarta.apache.org, J2EE:http://www.jboss.org, etc. And the fact that the Java VM is based on an open, community-developed specification: http://www.jcp.org. So, anyone can implement a JavaVM, and at least one group has developed a free one: http://www.kaffe.org. IBM has developed its own and rich set of tools: http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/java/. HP has its own Java tools and VM: http://www.hp.com/products1/unix/java/. And I could go on, but I think I've proven my point. Micro$oft developed C# to compete with Java (see http://www.google.com/search?q=c%23%20java%20comparison&sourceid=mozilla-sea rch&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 for many comparisons) and .NET to compete with J2EE (ditto: http://www.google.com/search?q=.net%20j2ee%20comparison&sourceid=mozilla-sea rch&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8). Imitation may be the sincerest form of flattery, but being first out of the gate does count in the IT industry. .NET has been touted (by Micro$oft developers not familiar with Java) as being a quantum leap beyond previous Micro$oft development tools, but Java has been doing the same things for years. Granted that Micro$oft packages the whole shebang into a nice, clickety-click set of GUI buttons that even a Micro$oft programmer (ulp! self-incrimination!) can use, but .NET is so far behind that only mandatory upgrades will get it any kind of market traction... er, wait, that's exactly what Micro$oft is doing. Now to answer your question: You asked if there is an alternative. An alternative to what? An alternative programming language? If that is your question, then the answer is C. But be prepared for a hell of a learning curve before you can be a competent multi-platform C programmer. I recommend Python (http://www.python.org) if you are just starting out with OO programming. When I think of Java versus VB or Java versus .NET, I am thinking of not just a programming language but a whole set of programming tools, a community of developers, and both client and server applications. So, Java and .NET are competing software technology "frameworks" of tools _and_ programmer experience. The key to this whole debate is that the technology that is more open and accessible will win. I think Java is more open to the developer's needs, so I think Java will win. Mono (http://www.go-mono.com) is a noble effort, but very few people will use it as Java is winning the war anyway. However, if Java doesn't win, then I think (hope?) the free and open source software community takes Mono and runs with it. John Hebert -----Original Message----- From: Challison To: [email protected] Sent: 8/27/03 7:44 PM Subject: Re: "Until Sun begins locking down.." was RE: [brlug-general] Microso: Insecure by Design Don't mean to intrude on a newly revived discussion between you both. Just curious.....is there another option? No VB, C#, Java............. How about Kaffe....I hadn't heard about it. I like Perl but its not really suitable for the same type of things. What is a good alternative that won't bite you in the butt down the road? At 05:15 PM 8/27/2003 -0500, you wrote: >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >Just give Sun the chance. Do you honestly think that Sun wouldn't lock >customers into their products, services, and protocols if given the >opportunity? It's a natural desire. Microsoft too was an underdog, >especially in the mid-90's when NT was relatively new and just beginning to >push into businesses. There was a large user and system administrator >community huddled around Windows since Microsoft was trying to market a >product that would reduce cost, and, so they were told, headaches. Sound >familiar? > >Java is basically open with a few gotchas. So is .NET. They can both get you. > >I think we have had this argument before, but about Apple. My point then as >now is that just because a company is an underdog when it comes to a >particular market or issue doesn't make it benign. > >At 04:57 PM 8/27/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > >You are a funny guy. > > > >Sun can't afford to lock it down as long as M$ remains the 800lb gorilla. > >I don't see M$ losing its status any time soon. > > > >Besides, they would have to lock up the openly available JavaVM spec, which > >would pizz off just a few (most) Java developers. There's always the > >clean-room developed Kaffe VM ... > > > >So, comparing VB to Java is not a good comparison at all. Sun relies on a > >community-developed Java spec. VB (and most M$ tools it seems) are designed > >by hordes of marketing monkeys: "How do we fight Java...?" "I know, let's > >develop an imitation called C#! Get it? C-Sharp! Like the musical notation! > >Isn't that cool?" > > > >M$ lost their geek cachet a looong time ago. > > > >John Hebert > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Dustin Puryear > >To: [email protected] > >Sent: 8/27/03 3:58 PM > >Subject: RE: [brlug-general] Microsoft Windows: Insecure by Design > > > >At 08:49 AM 8/27/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > >really learn how server computing worked for myself, instead of > >gleaning > > >clues from M$ documentation. > > > > > >And to be perfectly honest and self-incriminating, I am sending this > >message > > >from a M$ Windoze XP laptop, because my job requires it (VB > >programming). > > >However, my company is moving away from M$ and towards Java (whee!). It > > > >Until Sun begins locking down.. > > > >_______________________________________________ > >General mailing list > >[email protected] > >http://brlug.net/mailman/listinfo/general_brlug.net > > >--- >Dustin Puryear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Puryear Information Technology, LLC <http://www.puryear-it.com> >Providing expertise in the management, integration, and >security of Windows and UNIX systems, networks, and applications. > > >_______________________________________________ >General mailing list >[email protected] >http://brlug.net/mailman/listinfo/general_brlug.net _______________________________________________ General mailing list [email protected] http://brlug.net/mailman/listinfo/general_brlug.net
