--- Christian Tortorich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would suggest the possibility that what gets > passed down as > programmers underestimating the complexity of the > problem is in fact a > clever disguise for mismanagement of the project. > Programmers pretty > much do what the requirements say, don't you think? > I know we have all > felt the problem of vague, not well thought out > requirements that the > programmer/sysadmin/drone must make a best guess at.
I can agree with Christian's argument. I am a programmer and I've worked on plenty of projects where the solution was poorly designed and/or poorly communicated to the programmer. On the other hand, Edmund makes a valid point as well; there are sucky programmers out there. Programming software requires more than just coding, of course, just like building a house requires more skills than simply measuring, cutting and nailing wood together. Software development is a topic that is being researched and debated about every day. Hopefully it is improving. John > The disclaimer to this is that im not a programmer. > I have worked at > some fairly large implementations though and I find > this has held true > more than not. > > Scope creep, failure to understand user > requirements, inadequate > communication with programmers, etc? No? > > Having said that, some programmers just suck like > Andrew :) > > gg, > > Chris > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Edmund Cramp > Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2005 9:38 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [brlug-general] $BIG_NUM (was Supporting > Linux vs. Linux > Zealotry) > > David Jackson wrote: > > > I find your entire argument to be wrong; not > just wrong as in > > incorrect, but wrong as in morally, and ethically. > Does this make me > > an idealist? Certainly, but I am in good company. > Our founding > > fathers were idealists. > > > > Does that make me wrong, simply because I am an > idealist? I think > not. > > <snip> > > > Well, where the hell is their money coming from > then? Companies > > operate from profits, and if open source is not > profitable, without > > adopting proprietary standards, why is Redhat even > in business? > > Well this is a *lot* more interesting than the > topics for the recent LUG > > meetings! > > I think that the question of "What is a programmer > worth?" is > interesting - I've been employing programmers (on > and off - I've even > been one myself) for quite a few years (how long? - > let's just say that > I remember seeing Linus' original RFC), and it's > rarely been a happy > experience. I've seen "programmers" who were worth > a lot less than > $8/hour - and $8/hr is quite a bit more than our > government thinks you > need to live on. > > I think that programmers almost always under > estimate the complexity of > the problem, and over estimate their ability to code > for it. These two > failures lead directly to projects failing to > complete in anything > remotely resembling "on time" and inevitably either > costing and taking > more time and money than budgeted and/or being > drastically pruned to get > > something out of the door... which in turn leads to > poor coding and > application bugs. > > On the other hand - one of the good things about > GPL/Open Source > programming is that, in general, code is released > when it works, and > it's then tested by a diverse collection of folks > with no pressing need > to release it on any given date. This makes GPL > software more likely to > > work than many commercial applications and tends to > prevent the release > of code that would be better recycled as > firelighters. > > I don't understand people who think that there's no > sound commercial > basis for GPL software - I guess these are people > who never think about > how much money they spend on razor blades or printer > cartridges. > > Edmund Cramp > > -- > Never underestimate the power of very stupid people > in large groups. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > General mailing list > [email protected] > http://brlug.net/mailman/listinfo/general_brlug.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > General mailing list > [email protected] > http://brlug.net/mailman/listinfo/general_brlug.net > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
