Thanks Ming. While we agree that we have only done two releases so far, both of them are high quality and follow the Apache release process.
We feel that the community is mature enough that we can push for graduation as it is, and continue to push for high quality releases concurrently. It also allows us to focus on cutting feature based releases and focus on producing high quality releases than more releases. While it is Yizhi takes the role of the release manager in the previous two releases. The other PPMC members actively participate and help to create new releases. The release process is documented in detail here https://tvm.apache.org/docs/contribute/release_process.html So that it can be processed by any release manager. For example, I could have done these releases as well(yizhi and I are from different organizations). So hopefully the number of releases won't be a blocker. Would love to hear about constructive suggestions on how to improve a specific release or release process though :) TQ On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 4:15 PM Ming Wen <wenm...@apache.org> wrote: > I think Apache TVM need more Apache releases and more release manager. > TVM has two apache releases(12/05/2019 and 07/10/2020), and ONLY one > release manager(liuyizhi) [1]. > > [1] https://incubator.apache.org/clutch/tvm.html > > Thanks, > Ming Wen, Apache APISIX & Apache SkyWalking > Twitter: _WenMing > > > Henry Saputra <henry.sapu...@gmail.com> 于2020年8月28日周五 上午4:44写道： > > > Yes, as Tianqi has mentioned, the PPMC members watch the commits and > > development of TVM podling using Github notifications, which sent to dev@ > > list. > > So, they are still in the podling list. > > > > And of course we can always review the commits@ list via Pony mail [1] > > when > > needed. > > > > > > - Henry > > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/list.html?comm...@tvm.apache.org > > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 12:16 PM Tianqi Chen <tqc...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > Thanks Dave! > > > > > > > > > > With no one subscribed to commits@ how is the PPMC watching the > > > codebase? > > > > > > > > > > I believe most of us watch the codebase through github instead of the > > > commits@. > > > Note that the github discuss issues (VOTE, RFC, COMMUNITY) are > forwarded > > to > > > dev@(rather than commits), so we can make sure that anyone who > > > subscribed to dev@ can follow overall development, without having to > be > > > overwhelmed by the information in raw gituhb notifications. > > > > > > With only one PPMC member subscribed it would be better not to have > > > > security list and instead count on securty@apache to inform > > private@tvm. > > > > > > > > > I agree that is our oversight, I created the security@mail-list, but > > later > > > realized that we can count on securty@apache, the current security > > guide > > > https://tvm.apache.org/docs/dev/security.html already points to > > > security@apache > > > but I forget to ask infra to remove the list > > > > > > To address the question about bringing in people to the committers. > > > The PPMC totally agrees about bringing in new members actively to the > > > community! And we are doing so in a quite steady fashion. > > > > > > I agree that there could be some cases where a person's proposal could > be > > > slightly delayed, because I try to refrain from proposing new > committers > > > from our own orgs. > > > But overall we find that our community members interact with each > > > other(outside their organizations) more often, and usually my fellow > PMC > > > members bring them to the commiterships in a timely manner:) > > > I also think a slight lag is understandable given that most PPMC > members > > > are volunteers from a diverse group and operate on their part time > > > capacity. > > > > > > Given both principles (not nominating from same org and un-official > > > reviewer) are voted by the community, and we use explicit disclaimer > for > > > the cases, I believe it still works under the ASF framework. Just like > > the > > > un-official maturity model used by the incubator, which serves a goal > to > > > the community to grow, rather than as a gatekeeper > > > > > > Again, we strive to continue the effort of bringing in new members to > the > > > community, and nurturing community growth as we do so now. > > > > > > TQ > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope these answers help clarify your concerns and questions about > the > > > > > Apache TVM community. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > - Henry > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 10:58 AM Tianqi Chen <tqc...@apache.org> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Thank you Dave! > > > > >> > > > > >> (1) They have invented a new position between Contributor and > > > Committer > > > > >>> called “Reviewer”. I’m not sure why this was done. It seems to me > > > that > > > > >>> these individuals should just become Committers. > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> Reviewer is not an official position, but as a way for us to > > encourage > > > > >> reviews and find potential candidates for committerships. > > > > >> We use the following disclaimer which we sent during discussion a > > > > reviewer > > > > >> case and not vote is carried out(to lower bar of entry) > > > > >> > > > > >> Background: A Reviewer is not an official role, the community use > > this > > > > >> way to recognize potential committers early and bring them to the > > > > >> project development. Given the reviewer role is not official, we > > will > > > > >> only hold a discussion instead of a formal vote. We continue to > > follow > > > > >> the community’s principle to only nominate someone from a > different > > > > >> organization. > > > > >> > > > > >> The recognition of (un-official) reviewer is voted by the > community > > as > > > > part > > > > >> of Apache transition plan > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/c34b728f01d1030146594e47e0706cd1990ed731d06e3c179b7d501a%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E > > > > >> > > > > >> We strongly believe in nurturing contributions, welcome members to > > the > > > > >> community, and help the community to grow organically under the > > Apache > > > > way. > > > > >> The community is actively bringing in new committers, and we are > > doing > > > > so > > > > >> at a monthly rate. > > > > >> To encourage diversity and healthy growth the PPMC members strive > to > > > > make a > > > > >> more diverse community by only nominating people from a different > > > > >> organization. > > > > >> So there could be cases where a person from my own organization > > that I > > > > >> think should be nominated as a committer, but I wait until the > > person > > > > get > > > > >> recognized by a fellow PMC member > > > > >> from another organization. This wait usually won't be too long. > Even > > > > >> better, the community members work together with each other, > > > > >> since the most important factor is after all the community. > > > > >> > > > > >> (2) All discussions are threaded in GitHub and then reflected into > > the > > > > >>> dev@tvm mailing list. I just find this strange. > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> As per apache way, everything happens (also happens) on dev@tvm. > We > > > > try to > > > > >> set up the mechanism to enable maximum participation from the > > > community, > > > > >> while complying with ASF rules :) > > > > >> The emails from the dev@tvm are also forwarded to the github > > thread. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >>> Also, the discussion thread looks like a vote. Nothing is really > > > > >> discussed > > > > >>> about satisfying graduation requirements. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Did TVM fill out a Maturity Model? > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > >> Please see the maturity model here > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/18nyAH-fcptVezAxPQe6H3FeTKPRkujOp1tc1YRSPLok/edit?usp=sharing > > > > >> The maturity model is attached as part of the community discussion > > as > > > > >> well(inlined in the email when community model is mentioned. > > > > >> > > > > >> TQ > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 10:43 AM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> On Aug 27, 2020, at 10:27 AM, Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> > > wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Hi - > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I am bothered by two things that TVM does. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> (1) They have invented a new position between Contributor and > > > > Committer > > > > >>> called “Reviewer”. I’m not sure why this was done. It seems to me > > > that > > > > >>> these individuals should just become Committers. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Looking a little more closely it seems that Reviewers ought to be > > PMC > > > > >>> Members. Please explain. > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> (2) All discussions are threaded in GitHub and then reflected > into > > > the > > > > >>> dev@tvm mailing list. I just find this strange. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Also, the discussion thread looks like a vote. Nothing is really > > > > >>> discussed about satisfying graduation requirements. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Did TVM fill out a Maturity Model? > > > > >>> > > > > >>> I see you held that back until the VOTE thread. > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> Regards, > > > > >>>> Dave > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> On Aug 24, 2020, at 2:04 PM, Tianqi Chen <tqc...@apache.org> > > > wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Edit the subject so that it is obvious as a discussion thread > in > > > > >>>>> general@incubator. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> TQ > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> FYI, following a heated discussion with great support from our > > > > >> mentors, > > > > >>>>>> committers and community members. > > > > >>>>>> The Apache(incubating) TVM is starting a vote to graduate as > > TLP > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> - [1] community DISCUSS thread: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r91b8f469c6a54769869bb2435b7334a28bcff885ae078ab5612dae00%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E > > > > >>>>>> - [2] voting thread: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/rd5b8eefe49af09a2d0913758a5e5737b3fdb9072bc0becf4a2b2c7ee%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> TQ > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- > > > > >>>>>> From: Tianqi Chen <notificati...@github.com> > > > > >>>>>> Date: Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 1:51 PM > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [apache/incubator-tvm] [VOTE] Apache TVM Graduation > > > (#6332) > > > > >>>>>> To: apache/incubator-tvm <incubator-...@noreply.github.com> > > > > >>>>>> Cc: Subscribed <subscri...@noreply.github.com> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Dear Community: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Thanks to everyone who participated in the discussion about > > > > >>>>>> graduation[1]. This is a formal voting thread for Apache TVM’s > > > > >>> graduation. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> If this vote passes, the next step would be to submit the > > > resolution > > > > >>> below > > > > >>>>>> to the Incubator PMC, who would vote on sending it on to the > > > Apache > > > > >>> Board. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Vote: > > > > >>>>>> [ ] +1 - Recommend graduation of Apache TVM as a TLP > > > > >>>>>> [ ] 0 - I don't feel strongly about it, but don't object > > > > >>>>>> [ ] -1 - Do not recommend graduation of Apache TVM because... > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> The VOTE will open for at least 72 hours. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> This thread is mirrored to dev@, please vote by replying to > > this > > > > >>> thread > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> ------------------ > > > > >>>>>> The TVM project has been an Apache incubator project for > nearly > > > 1.5 > > > > >>> year > > > > >>>>>> now. In the past one and half year, the community grew > healthily > > > > >> under > > > > >>> the > > > > >>>>>> Apache way. Some highlights include: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> - A successful developer conference that we are continuing to > > host > > > > >> this > > > > >>>>>> year > > > > >>>>>> - Great community growth, as of now, the community contains 16 > > > PPMC > > > > >>>>>> members, 31 committers, from a diverse list of organizations. > We > > > are > > > > >>>>>> actively growing the list monthly. > > > > >>>>>> - Active contributions: ~ 150 PRs merged each month. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> The community has produced two formal apache releases. While > we > > > > could > > > > >>> also > > > > >>>>>> wait until more releases. We feel that the community is mature > > > > enough > > > > >>> that > > > > >>>>>> we can push for graduation as it is, and continue to push for > > high > > > > >>> quality > > > > >>>>>> releases concurrently. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> For reference, we also put together a maturity evaluation > doc[2] > > > > >> under > > > > >>> the > > > > >>>>>> Apache maturity model. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Some additional note about the resolution below: the current > > PPMC > > > > >> will > > > > >>> be > > > > >>>>>> transitioned to the PMC. We have invited all the mentors in > the > > > > >> current > > > > >>>>>> PPMC who like to stay involved. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> ----------------- > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> Establish the Apache TVM Project > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> WHEREAS, the Board of Directors deems it to be in the best > > > interests > > > > >> of > > > > >>>>>> the Foundation and consistent with the Foundation's purpose to > > > > >>> establish > > > > >>>>>> a Project Management Committee charged with the creation and > > > > >>> maintenance > > > > >>>>>> of open-source software, for distribution at no charge to the > > > > public, > > > > >>>>>> related to compilation of machine learning models to run on a > > wide > > > > >>> range > > > > >>>>>> of hardware platforms... > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that a Project Management > > > Committee > > > > >>>>>> (PMC), to be known as the "Apache TVM Project", be and hereby > is > > > > >>>>>> established pursuant to Bylaws of the Foundation; and be it > > > further > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache TVM Project be and hereby is > > responsible > > > > >> for > > > > >>> the > > > > >>>>>> creation and maintenance of software related to compilation of > > > > >> machine > > > > >>>>>> learning models to run on a wide range of hardware platforms; > > and > > > be > > > > >> it > > > > >>>>>> further > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the office of "Vice President, Apache TVM" be > and > > > > >>>>>> hereby is created, the person holding such office to serve at > > the > > > > >>>>>> direction of the Board of Directors as the chair of the Apache > > TVM > > > > >>>>>> Project, and to have primary responsibility for management of > > the > > > > >>>>>> projects within the scope of responsibility of the Apache TVM > > > > >>>>>> Project; and be it further > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the persons listed immediately below be and > > hereby > > > > are > > > > >>>>>> appointed to serve as the initial members of the Apache TVM > > > Project: > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> * Tianqi Chen <tqc...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * Timothy Chen <tnac...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * Zhi Chen <z...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * Byung-Gon Chun <bgc...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * Ziheng Jiang <zih...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * Furkan Kamaci <kam...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * YiZhi Liu <liuyi...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * Masahiro Masuda <mas...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * Thierry Moreau <mor...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * Jared Roesch <jroe...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * Henry Saputra <hsapu...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * Haichen Shen <haic...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * Markus Weimer <wei...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * Eddie Yan <e...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> * Lianmin Zheng <lmzh...@apache.org> > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that Tianqi Chen be > > > > appointed > > > > >>> to > > > > >>>>>> the office of Vice President, Apache TVM, to serve in > accordance > > > > >>>>>> with and subject to the direction of the Board of Directors > and > > > the > > > > >>>>>> Bylaws of the Foundation until death, resignation, retirement, > > > > >> removal > > > > >>>>>> or disqualification, or until a successor is appointed; and be > > it > > > > >>>>>> further > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that the Apache TVM Project be and hereby is tasked > > with > > > > >>>>>> the migration and rationalization of the Apache Incubator TVM > > > > >>>>>> podling; and be it further > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> RESOLVED, that all responsibilities pertaining to the Apache > > > > >> Incubator > > > > >>>>>> TVM podling encumbered upon the Apache Incubator PMC are > > > hereafter > > > > >>>>>> Discharged. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> - [1] > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/r91b8f469c6a54769869bb2435b7334a28bcff885ae078ab5612dae00%40%3Cdev.tvm.apache.org%3E > > > > >>>>>> - [2] > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/18nyAH-fcptVezAxPQe6H3FeTKPRkujOp1tc1YRSPLok/edit?usp=sharing > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> -- > > > > >>>>>> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this > > thread. > > > > >>>>>> Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub: > > > > >>>>>> https://github.com/apache/incubator-tvm/issues/6332 > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > > general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: > general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
