This is great to hear @Jarek! Yes I think there's a good balance to strike.
With this one it's a good learning (crash-course) in what makes an apache
release.

Agreed on timing points -- I do think I will likely go forth with the
current build process and create a ticket or two for the next.

Candidate RC2 coming shortly...

On Sat, Nov 29, 2025 at 3:00 PM Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> wrote:

> And just to add " it's ultimately the release manager's decision to
> release.AFTER passing the vote by PMC" - to be perfectly clear.
>
> On Sat, Nov 29, 2025 at 11:57 PM Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Also thanks for being responsive Elijah!
> >
> > One thing I've learned in ASF projects is that we do not optimise for
> > "time-to-market". This is something that makes us very different from
> many
> > commercial projects out there, and I personally think is a reason for
> > Open-source success in general. Whether we release today or tomorrow or
> in
> > a week, does not ultimately matter. In 3 months, we will not even
> remember
> > if the software was released in November or already in December, It will
> > not matter. But it will matter a lot if we do it as much as possible
> > "right" today, so that next time we will do it even "better". My personal
> > approach is "leave the world a bit better every single day, one day at a
> > time". I think this is something we follow closely here in the ASF and in
> > Airflow.
> >
> > To be perfectly honest - every single time we make our release (like
> > **every** , **single**, **f...g**, **time**) we find something in our
> > release process, scripts, docs that needs to be improved.... And we do.
> You
> > will find one or two PRs to improve things every time we make a release -
> > you can see examples from just during the last few days, done by three
> > different people from the Airflow community: [1], [2]. [3]
> >
> > This is despite our release processes running pretty regularly every two
> > weeks over many years.
> >
> > But also this has another side - don't strive for 100% perfectionism and
> > have everything **right**. Do as much as you can to make it  better every
> > time, but know where you call "quits" and (for example) create an issue
> > to improve things next time and relentlessly actually resolve the issue
> > next time.
> >
> > Done is better than perfect.
> >
> > So I think the most important virtue of a release manager is to decide
> > when to call "quits" - and it does not matter how many signals you have
> > from different people that it's not "ready" - it's ultimately the release
> > manager's decision to release.
> >
> > [1]  https://github.com/apache/airflow/pull/58818
> > [2]. https://github.com/apache/airflow/pull/58794
> > [3]  https://github.com/apache/airflow/pull/58793
> >
> > J.
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 29, 2025 at 11:21 PM Elijah ben Izzy <
> > [email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> @Jarek, awesome, thank you!
> >>
> >> Summary -- this result has failed, we're calling it. I will be sending
> out
> >> a new set of files shortly to vote on!
> >>
> >> Thanks for the patience everyone.
> >>
> >> -Elijah
> >>
> >> On Sat, Nov 29, 2025 at 8:28 AM Jarek Potiuk <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > This is fine.
> >> >
> >> > The "incubating" in the name is more on the source release (archives)
> >> than
> >> > binary artifacts. The problem with PyPI artifacts is that the name
> >> > determines the PyPI package and that would be hell of a hassle to
> >> release
> >> > with a different package name while incubating.
> >> >
> >> > With Airflow we have not done it for sure
> >> > https://pypi.org/project/apache-airflow/1.9.0/#files -> that was one
> of
> >> > the
> >> > releases we've done (I mean the team back then - I was not around
> yet) -
> >> > and we did not have "incubating" in the name.
> >> >
> >> > And I think it's clearly specified here
> >> > https://incubator.apache.org/guides/distribution.html#pypi -> where
> the
> >> > only. requirement (which I was going to check with the upcoming
> release
> >> ;))
> >> > is that the DESCRIPTION of the project should contain (Incubating) -
> the
> >> > name of the package is still supposed to be "apache-PROJECT".
> >> >
> >> > J,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sat, Nov 29, 2025 at 2:35 AM Elijah ben Izzy <
> >> > [email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > @Jarek -- one question. Currently the files for the wheel don't
> start
> >> > with
> >> > > "incubating" as they match the package name `apache-burr`. Given
> that
> >> > we're
> >> > > not voting on this I think that's OK, but wanted to check in case
> I'm
> >> > > missing anything here, I.E. there's a more strict requirement on all
> >> > files.
> >> > >
> >> > > On Fri, Nov 28, 2025 at 5:15 PM Elijah ben Izzy <
> >> > > [email protected]> wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > Sure -- folks feel free to keep posting feedback -- we identified
> >> > another
> >> > > > (surprising) issue as well. I'm setting up the build so I can do a
> >> > > tomorrow
> >> > > > morning proposal.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Fri, Nov 28, 2025 at 1:57 PM Stefan Krawczyk <
> >> > > [email protected]>
> >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > >> let's wait for more feedback in case there are other issues to
> >> > address?
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> On Fri, Nov 28, 2025 at 12:47 PM Elijah ben Izzy <
> >> > > >> [email protected]> wrote:
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >> > Ok let’s call this vote failed I’m going to do a second RC
> >> version
> >> > > >> shortly
> >> > > >> > after updating headings and specifying license files —
> hopefully
> >> > ready
> >> > > >> > tonight or tomorrow morning.
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > Thanks for checking,
> >> > > >> > - Elijah
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > On Fri, Nov 28, 2025 at 11:16 AM Jarek Potiuk <
> [email protected]>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >> > > I was going to take a look tomorrow (sorry for delays ...
> >> > travels).
> >> > > >> > >
> >> > > >> > > Yep. You need to specify the licence files in pyproject.toml:
> >> > > >> > >
> >> > > >> > > license-files = ['LICENSE', 'NOTICE', 'DISCLAIMER']
> >> > > >> > >
> >> > > >> > > On Fri, Nov 28, 2025 at 8:06 PM Stefan Krawczyk <
> >> > > >> > [email protected]
> >> > > >> > > >
> >> > > >> > > wrote:
> >> > > >> > >
> >> > > >> > > > Update: in the convenience package the LICENSE is there (in
> >> the
> >> > > >> > metadata
> >> > > >> > > > portion), but the DISCLAIMER and NOTICE are not. Is that
> >> okay? I
> >> > > >> assume
> >> > > >> > > > not? @Jarek do you have any ideas why flit would exclude
> >> these?
> >> > > >> > > >
> >> > > >> > > > On Fri, Nov 28, 2025 at 10:33 AM Stefan Krawczyk <
> >> > > >> > > > [email protected]>
> >> > > >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > >> > > >
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > [ ] +1 Release this package as Apache Burr
> >> 0.41.0-incubating
> >> > > >> > > > > [ ] +0 No opinion
> >> > > >> > > > > *[X] -1 Do not release this package because... *
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > *Missing headers in source (excluding files that we
> cannot
> >> > put a
> >> > > >> > header
> >> > > >> > > > > in):*
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > grep -rL "Licensed to the Apache Software Foundation" .
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > >
> >> > > >> > >
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >>
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> --exclude-dir={.git,.idea,node_modules,__pycache__,venv,target,build,py.typed}
> >> > > >> > > > > 1.
> >> > > >> burr/tracking/server/s3/deployment/terraform/.terraform.lock.hcl
> >> > > >> > > > > 2. The examples in source don't have headers:
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > ./examples/deep-researcher/requirements.txt
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > ./examples/deep-researcher/notebook.ipynb
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > ./examples/streaming-fastapi/notebook.ipynb
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > ./examples/multi-modal-chatbot/requirements.txt
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > ./examples/multi-modal-chatbot/notebook.ipynb
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > ./examples/multi-modal-chatbot/burr_demo.ipynb
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > ./examples/email-assistant/requirements.txt
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > ./examples/email-assistant/notebook.ipynb
> >> > > >> > > > > 3. .files in source
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > ./.pre-commit-config.yaml
> >> > > >> > > > >  ./.style.yapf
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > ./setup.cfg
> >> > > >> > > > > 4. Telemetry Files
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > ./telemetry/ui/.prettierignore
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > ./telemetry/ui/public/robots.txt
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > ./telemetry/ui/.eslintignore
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > *Convenience package issues:*
> >> > > >> > > > > *1. *missing NOTICE & LICENSE
> >> > > >> > > > > 2. missing examples required for UI demos to function
> >> > > >> > > > (ModuleNotFoundError:
> >> > > >> > > > > No module named 'burr.examples')
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > Checklist for reference:
> >> > > >> > > > > [x] Download links are valid.
> >> > > >> > > > > [x] Checksums and signatures.
> >> > > >> > > > > [x] LICENSE/NOTICE files exist in source
> >> > > >> > > > > [-] LICENSE/NOTICE files exist in convenience whl  <----
> >> this
> >> > is
> >> > > >> > > missing
> >> > > >> > > > > [x] No unexpected binary files in source
> >> > > >> > > > > [x] No unexpected binary files in convenience whl
> >> > > >> > > > > [-] All source files have ASF headers in source
> >> > > >> > > > > [x] Can compile from source
> >> > > >> > > > > [x] build script recreates convenience package that was
> >> > uploaded
> >> > > >> (see
> >> > > >> > > > note
> >> > > >> > > > > below on SHAs being different)
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > What I did to validate the source:
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > >    1. Downloaded release and checked keys
> >> > > >> > > > >    2. Created python virtual environment and did *`pip
> >> install
> >> > > -e
> >> > > >> > > > >    ".[start]" (need to update instructions)*
> >> > > >> > > > >    3. Ran `burr` to start the UI and checked the demo
> data
> >> > > >> > > > >    4. Because I have an OPENAI_API_KEY I was able to run
> >> the
> >> > > email
> >> > > >> > > > >    assistant example from the UI and validate the UI
> works.
> >> > > >> > > > >    5. Otherwise I went to the
> examples/hello-world-counter
> >> > > >> > > > >    <
> >> > > >> > > >
> >> > > >> > >
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >>
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> https://github.com/apache/burr/blob/main/examples/hello-world-counter/application.py
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > >    to verify that vanilla Burr runs
> >> > > >> > > > >    6. I compared the convenience whls created -- the file
> >> > > contents
> >> > > >> > are
> >> > > >> > > > >    identical (I pip installed *wheeldiff* and manually
> did
> >> > > >> *diff)*,
> >> > > >> > but
> >> > > >> > > > >    due to timestamps, the SHAs are different --*
> something
> >> to
> >> > > >> note in
> >> > > >> > > the
> >> > > >> > > > >    notes*
> >> > > >> > > > >    7. I created a new environment for the convenience
> >> package
> >> > > and
> >> > > >> > > > >    installed that via pip install "NAME.whl[start]" and
> >> then
> >> > > found
> >> > > >> > the
> >> > > >> > > > server
> >> > > >> > > > >    did not start.
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > Cheers,
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > Stefan
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2025 at 11:07 PM Elijah ben Izzy <
> >> > > >> > > > > [email protected]> wrote:
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > > >> Hi all!
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >> This is a call for a vote on releasing Apache Burr
> >> > > >> 0.41.0-incubating
> >> > > >> > > > >> Release Candidate 1.
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >> This release includes the following changes (see
> CHANGELOG
> >> > for
> >> > > >> > > details).
> >> > > >> > > > >> See all commits since prior release:
> >> > > >> > > > >> -
> >> https://github.com/apache/burr/compare/burr-0.40.2...main
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >> Key changes include:
> >> > > >> > > > >> - pool-based async PG persister
> >> > > >> > > > >> - multiple UI updates
> >> > > >> > > > >> - Apache compatible licenses/build processes
> >> > > >> > > > >> - bug fixes, typing, etc...
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >> The artifacts for this release candidate can be found
> at:
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > >
> >> > > >> > >
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >>
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/dev/incubator/burr/0.41.0-incubating-RC1
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >> The Git tag to be voted upon is: v0.41.0
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >> The release hash is
> >> a95c7c3f1425db382b367b0d4f888704ea2939f9
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >> Release artifacts are signed with the following key:
> >> > > >> > > > >> BB8B72B34AB9A664A109AA17A76CF4C80E4E5355
> >> > > >> > > > >> The KEYS file is available at:
> >> > > >> > > > >> https://downloads.apache.org/incubator/burr/KEYS
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >> Please download, verify, and test the release candidate.
> >> For
> >> > > >> testing
> >> > > >> > > use
> >> > > >> > > > >> your best judgement. The following may suffice:
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >> 1. Build/run the UI following the instructions in
> >> > > >> scripts/README.md
> >> > > >> > > > >> 2. Run the tests in tests/
> >> > > >> > > > >> 3. Import into a jupyter notebook and play around
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >> The vote will run for a minimum of 72 hours.
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >> On behalf of the Apache Burr PPMC,
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >> Elijah ben Izzy ([email protected])
> >> > > >> > > > >>
> >> > > >> > > > >
> >> > > >> > > >
> >> > > >> > >
> >> > > >> >
> >> > > >>
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> >
> >>
> >
>

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