James Mitchell wrote: >Ok. Here's my response. > >There's nothing wrong with JSP. Those that bash it are those who clearly >have no understanding of it. >These same people have usually tried to use it at one time, but became >frustrated by their own lack of knowledge in web application development and >now think its easier to say 'it just sucks man' than try to learn something. > > I've delivered many applications with JSP and even a couple with struts. I also have written several *gasp* ASP applications. JSP is a "right is wrong and wrong is right" approach. You can work real hard, use taglibs and cleanly structure an application in JSP. However, it better supports the ball of mud pattern.
Secondly, any application written in JSP which has short deadlines and multiple developers with varying skill levels will eventually degrade to its natural order. (big monolithic cobol like pages) Most of the time when I worked in JSP, half of my time was spent refactoring code from other developers whom wrote "natural" JSP. >Or worse, before they come to that conclusion some idiot comes along and >tries to help them with their jsp skills.....and what you're left with is a >tremendous hack, equivalent to the 15,000 line class.....everything is in >main!!!! > > My typical application was generally MVC based, generally using a servlet as a controller. JSP --- IS --- a temendously bad hack. >When it comes to developing web applications, where (along the way) did >people forget that http is just a friggin 'document requesting' protocol? > > I fail to see the connection? >If it were a play, it might go something like this.... > >User Server >---- ------ >"I need this file" "Here you go" >"I need this file" "Here you go" >"I need this file" "Here you go" >"I need this file" "Here you go" >"I need this file" "Here you go" >"I need this file" "Here you go" > > >Now hack away at this and try to make an application somehow. JSP was >simply a natural progression from static html. (DUH!) > > No ASP was simply the natural progression from *SAPI which was the natural progression from CGI which was the natural progression from static HTML. JSP was the answer to ASP, initially barely more than ASP using Java. Also in the early days of JSPs the main commercial implementation Netscape Application Server and you needed to "touch' them regularly. >I think that learning Velocity or any other framework (besides Struts) would >be a waste of MY time, but I don't go a around vomiting my negative opinions >on developer lists. (ell, until now ;) > For the record, I started with JSP before it was out of beta, and didn't like it then. I thought taglibs were a great improvement but it was again insufficent. > > Struts is great, don't get me wrong. I was very pleased when it matured, its the best way to do the wrong thing. Many times thats the best you can do as a $oftware developer. Live in your happy little world, and if you're happy putting out that sludge go for it. When your skills progress and you'd like to create object oriented software (even in a web app) and cleanly seperate your logic and content in a web application that is maintainable under time, perhaps you'll look up a more advanced framework and grow to find the failings in JSP. -Andy JSP = Java's Super PERL! :-) > > >James Mitchell >Software Engineer\Struts Evangelist >Struts-Atlanta, the "Open Minded Developer Network" >http://www.open-tools.org/struts-atlanta > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Andrew C. Oliver [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >>Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 4:10 PM >>To: Jakarta General List >>Subject: Re: localhost:8080 vs localhost??? >> >> >>But no one replied to my lovely email when I said that other than POI >>and HTTPD there was only actually >>one Apache project, all the others are the same project implemented >>different ways and that JSP had the >>structure of a dog turned inside out... I was so proud of that...how >>mean of you all not to respond :-( >> >>;-) >> >>-Andy >> >>Leo Simons wrote: >> >> >> >>>>>Is that site generated by maven ? ;)) >>>>> >>>>>Mvgr, >>>>>Martin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>Anakia >>>> >>>>I hate to admit it here, but the output is .html files which are then >>>>processed through PHP. I'm going to be moving away from even >>>> >>>> >>using Anakia >> >> >>>>and just using PHP. >>>> >>>>PHP is terribly fugly and encourages the worst code design >>>> >>>> >>ever, but you can >> >> >>>>get a lot more done with it in a short amount of time and there >>>> >>>> >>is no way in >> >> >>>>hell I would ever lower myself to using JSP. >>>> >>>>=) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>yeah. And it's got a template language called Smarty which is *way* >>>better than velocity!!! >>> >>>:P >>> >>>- Leo, who figured there was another flamefest when he saw all those >>>e-mails and is now eagerly waiting for a picture of a crossdressing >>>jon... >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >>-- >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >> >> > > >-- >To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
