> You can not use the normal English meaning of "array"
> to make this argument.  Array has a special meaning
> in mathematics/computer science, wherein its meaning 
> is due in no small part to its usage in APL (and J).

I realize that J can use the terms any way it wants to,
but I suggest to you that you shouldn't depart from
standard meanings without sufficient reason.  It is up
to each of us to decide what is sufficient; we talk about
it to try to establish a common terminology.

[Sometimes the Dictionary terminology is so wrong, as
in using the term 'global assignment' for something like
abc_xyz_ =: 5, that agreement is impossible]

> 
> > I would use 'noun' to mean 'array or atom' in the
> > cases you mention.
> > 
> > Why have two words to mean the same thing?  Currently,
> > 'noun' = 'array'.
> 
> So you would say "functions apply to noun arguments
> and return noun results".  That mixes two metaphors:
> 
> noun    verb       adverb conjunction
> array   function   operator

I would say 'verbs apply to nouns operands and produce noun
results'.

I would never use the word 'operator' because to a
mathematician/physicist it means a modifier, while to a
C programmer it means a verb.

I would also be wary about calling something a 'function'
when it can return different values on successive calls with
the same operand.

So when I'm talking J, I would say 'verb'.

I would use 'array' to mean a noun that has dimensions, and
'atom' to mean a noun that does not.  'Noun' covers both cases.


> 
> > I want 'array' to mean rank > 0 to avoid
> > the clumsy 'non-atomic array'.
> 
> If "non-atomic array" is clumsy, then "array and atom"
> is no less so, and would be used much more. e.g.
> What does the monad [EMAIL PROTECTED] do?  It finds the rank
> of an array (or atom).  For that matter, what does
> the monad $ do?  Finds the shape of an array (or atom).

[EMAIL PROTECTED] finds the rank of a noun, and $ finds the shape of
a noun.  What's hard about that?

Once you get over thinking that 'array' must include
atoms, you can get down to the real issues:

0) Do we need a word for 'non-atomic noun'?  I say yes.

1) Is there a better word than 'array'?  I say no.

2) Would people be confused by a change in terminology?  I say no.





> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Henry Rich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Saturday, October 6, 2007 11:07
> Subject: RE: [Jgeneral] Re: Empty dimensions confuse me
> To: 'General forum' <[email protected]>
> 
> > 'Array' to include atoms violates normal usage.
> > 'Array' in plain English refers to a bunch of things
> > ordered in some way.  Look up the dictionary definition.
> > You'll find something like
> > 
> >   regular order or arrangement; series
> > 
> > The plain, non-tortured reading of this is that an array is
> > something that has axes to be ordered along; in short, it
> > is divisible.  It is NOT an atom.
> > 
> > 
> > I would use 'noun' to mean 'array or atom' in the
> > cases you mention.
> > 
> > Why have two words to mean the same thing?  Currently,
> > 'noun' = 'array'.
> > 
> > I want 'array' to mean rank > 0 to avoid
> > the clumsy 'non-atomic array'.
> > 
> > For example, when I try to define what an 'item' is.
> > It's a cell of rank one less than the noun's rank, unless
> > the noun is an atom, which is a special case.  I would
> > like to say:
> > 
> >   An item of an array is a cell whose rank is 1 less than
> >   the array's rank.  An atom has one item, itself.
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