Thanks, Joey, you've mostly said it for me. First, I salute jsoftware for deigning to support the Mac *at all* with a Mac-enabled product. Otherwise what's a nose-wrinkle would be a show-stopper for me vis-a-vis JGTK.
A Mac-savvy product is a different matter, and would demand a dedicated Mac developer (if not a whole development team). IMO (as a former Apple associate) the Mac community cannot acceptably be served with a few defensive hacks to the user interface of a Windows/Linux product. I cannot in all conscience ask Jsoftware to even try. It's a business case (or a strategic one) and one I personally am in no position to make for them. Support for GTK in the Mac community is conspicuous by its half-heartedness... that's my impression when I follow the links from the GNU site & sourceforge. This should come as no surprise as the Mac has had a groundbreaking proprietary ui since 1983. Perhaps interest in GTK is confined to small developers aiming to release a cross platform product, eg stats packages developed by universities? Ergo, effort expended on pleasing Mac end-users where GTK is concerned is effort wasted. Enough that a developer can get at the works. My remark about shortcuts corresponding to menu items is one I'll stand by, however. The present treatment of advance-lab signals unmistakeably to the Mac-savvy J-novice that (as Chris admits) the Mac/JGTK interface is for jocks and novices don't figure. Best get the message right at the start. On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 5:21 PM, Joey K Tuttle <[email protected]> wrote: > Response from a Mac (and Linux/Unix - never Windows) user - > > In Apple Terminal (and all Unix terminals) my main (almost exclusive) > environment for J use - Ctrl+j means "enter line" Cmnd+j means "Jump > to selection" -- I don't have any problem using Ctrl+j for enter, > seems natural (and it is the standard meaning of ASCII character > 10{a.). > > I will say that, in my experience, keyboards are more problematic > than character sets (thinking APL here). Moving to a new/different > environment almost always causes some consternation. Chord key > combinations amplify that consternation. > > Personal customization, as suggested by Chris, is an answer to > complaints - but it may be more difficult than you expect to get > consensus from the "four Mac users" .... > > - joey > > > At 11:03 AM +0000 11/02/21, Ian Clark wrote: >>< Rant > >>Menus are the first line of recourse for the novice. And who are the >>Labs meant for, if not novices? >> >>The Macintosh Human Factors Guidelines used to warn against >>key/modifier chords which correspond to no menu item. Loose >>"shortcuts" are a Windows abuse and diagnostic of an app developed >>with little or no concession to novices. >> >>Ctrl in Windows is (usually) the counterpart of Cmnd ( ) on the Mac. >>But nowadays Mac keyboards offer a Ctrl key also, as a concession to >>ex-Windows customers (...growing) -- particularly users of M$Word, >>which has been re-ported to the Mac with little or no understanding of >>novice needs. There's no good reason for a novice ever to buy M$Word: >>the kludge is aimed at an existing audience. Which is, they'd >>arrogantly maintain: everybody (...who matters). Hence the need to >>offer a Ctrl key. >> >>But on the Mac: Ctrl+J to advance a Lab is Ctrl+J in JGTK not J ...it >>appears to be the sole exception to the "rule" Ctrl+ --> . >> >>I'd have pointed this out before but I don't know if anyone's >>listening. (How many Mac users are there on this list? Four?) >></ Rant > >> >> >>On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 9:04 AM, chris burke <[email protected]> wrote: >>> I think it should be enough to say: >>> >>> "To advance the lab, press Esc A in JHS, or Ctrl-J in Gtk." >>> >>> I updated the lab script for this. >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 3:41 PM, Ric Sherlock <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> This should now read: >>>> To advance the lab, if you are using the JHS front end, select >>>>menu Studio|Advance Lab or the corresponding shortcut (Esc,a), >>>>otherwise if you are using the Gtk front end then select the menu >>>>Help|Studio|Advance Lab or the corresponding shortcut (Ctrl+j). >>>> (Note the Gtk menu item doesn't exist yet but probably should). >>>> >>>> Seems harder than it needs to be to me! >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Ajith Prasad <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Monday, 21 February 2011 17:08 >>>> To: '[email protected]' <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: [Jgeneral] Shortcut for advancing the Lab menus? >>>> >>>> Lab: A Taste of J (1) >>>> To advance the lab, select menu Studio|Advance or the >>>> corresponding shortcut. >>>> >>>> ********************************** >>>> >>>> As "Studio|Advance" does not appear on the j701gtk menu, what >>>>would the shortcut be? Thanks. >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm >>> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
