On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 21:48:34 -0700 (PDT) tom marinis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
--- Matthew Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Suckers!!!
Who are you referring to Matthew, the Homeland Security
Office in the USA who chose Microsoft, or the users of the internet?
The biggests losers will be the Open Source Community, and the Linux community. This is just the tip of the Iceberg.
Please understand, right now, the internet, the users, and
the businesses use the internet because it is free, and unregulated. It is freely availble to anyone and everyone for
there own purposes.
However, Homeland Security cannot permit this to occur, because this freedom causes a lot of restrain on resources
and making tracking people down very hard.
To permit the Internet to continue like this in the US if Homeland Security is to address certain draw backs and
pitfalls the internet has, there has to be some type
of measures, and methods of tracking that can be introduced
along with remote e-mail copy/retrival that the MS OS already affords in XP.
Now you're getting paranoid.
No. It's would probably be called in the MS community 'progress'.
It's a very simplistic idea that can be done with a little political will, and the monetary and political clout that MS already has.
We have the hardware and software now to do it. France tried and failed remember, but the reasons for failing was the software and the speed side. With the introduction of Cable, DSL, to the public, those speed barriers are obsolete.
I'm talking about creating a 'home network', something you might set up for your house, but simply larger, that would involve all companies and people within the US of A.
MS has the moxy to blantently state that they are leading the field of computing, so why should they stop now?
Even you had doubts about Passport and Palladium, but even you can't deny the coming eventuality now.
HS and the entities that now comprise them have always used M$.
Use of Linux in the US (particularly on the destop) is going to take some time because it's been around for US folks for so long (there's something else?). Outside the US, switching to Linux (or even just starting in Linux) is easy. No need for massive retraining and lots of wailing, weeping, and gnashing of teeth.
I agree with you, but I'm talking about MS developing a 'internet zone', strictly for US consumer uses. The US would permit people to visit this zone, but under the conditions that they use a single MS browser, MS OS operated computer or gaming machine,
MS gaming boxes for enterainment and other software for those purposes.
The H.S. would probably demand all companies that to operate web sites with the US, they would have to join the 'zone', under their rules, and Microsoft's. Web content, music,
code, movie trailers, etc., that are created by MS and
can be monitored and tracked by the the H.S. department people would therefore be 'secure'.
{ hey, I doubt that, but I'm pretty sure that is what the sales pitch would read as }
These companies simply buy the OS, and H.S. gives them the ip address, forgoing the current authroity, and utilizing the
US's own ipv6 address block for their own purposes. I can see
the US paying for that, and then charging others for the
use of those IP's addresses to make up the money.
Sure, you could surf elsewhere, but if you wanted to visit a US website for instance, unless your running MS governed OS and software, your browser would fail to 'connect'.
This option is already proven effective and available on Windows 2000 server versus Netscape browsers, remember...?
H.S. would then be able to monitor and track people within the 'zone', and tell its citizens that if they wanted to use the massive internet, they do so at their own risk.
With Microsoft becoming the winner, MS will eventually convince the powers at be, that the only method of really controlling the problems of crackers, spammers, and people that abuse the internet in general is to regulate it via OS, browser, and whatever other utility program that could be run on a computer you can think of.
M$ strong point has always been marketing. They'll ride it for all it's worth.
And M$ been tooting the 'security' horn for about 2 years now, haven't they?
MS will suggest to the H.S. that all internet commerce, all websites, and all web browsers, Computer PC Operating Systems, and Cell phone and PDA services be run under the Microsoft OS that they will produce in the future, or the Internet will be made rendered unusable by other non-MS products.
Won't work: 1. the Internet is UNIX-based. Always has been, and I suspect always will be (at least for the forseeable future).
Oh, I agree with you, however, if MS can introduce their own browser connection http server and restrict OS or browser connection, what's stopping them from developing this concept somewhat further?
I only see time holding them back, and not the law, or people.
2. you can only dictate so much. OSS can't be outlawed, even the US Gov't uses it (NSA, NASA, etc.).
Again, that's for now. However, under the threat of 'National Security', how far will H.S. go to secure it's networks within the States, and further educate people on protecting their
internet identity?
Look at who's advising H.S. now, and who has the resources and the knowhow to start protecting US networks and is willing to
spend some big money on doing something about it.
Them tell me it won't happen.
You're being alarmist.
I'm being realistic. Trends on the internet are dictating a form
of 'government' or 'corporate' intervention for the practices
being encountered today. Spam, web site defacing, virus creation, are the direct threats to M$ products.
The only way to curb their occurance is to have those computers 'in your network', 'monitored' for problems. You and I do it for our home networks.
So why can't Microsft go around stating that it can do this job, and trash the competition while it's doing this?
If your on the 'MS XP', your safety is ensured. It is right now, with Passport. Why don't we companies take M$ to task with their
security problems with RPC and Passport leaks and breaches?
If M$ cannot be held accountable because of their EULA with their products, and M$ can protect themselves and their OS with it, why
can't the Government also envelope itself also within that
same blanket, and protect itself from litigation?
Hell, the government would make money by charging for IP's, for setting their own price.
Don't you recall the Pentium III came out with CPU ID's
when INTEL FIRST introduced them? Do you think that process has stopped? What about all those cell phones and PDA's now?
Yep, the CPU id's are used for DRM. About all, too.
Hehe, I meant that CPU id's can be used for information tracking, much like XP's registration process. Part and parcel of the growing trend to locate computers within the physical borders of the US.
Business people in the USA right now are somewhat upset by spam, viruses, and general mischief on the 'net.
It costs them money.
Then they need to understand that OSS can help, not hurt. Running FreeBSD and Linux is often the best defense. They just need to be educated by someone other than M$.
Gee, tell that to DARPA. They cut the funding to OpenBSD on a drop of a hat, and this is supposedly the most secure OS available. And who advised DARPA for the cut....
Microsoft.
These problems occur because most PC users ( okay, say 70% )
are using MS products, and those people attacking those computers are running non-MS OS's.
Where did you get this nonsense from? Proof. M$ script kiddies that d/l cracker programs and push buttons cause most of the problems. The 14 year old that shut down one company was running M$ and controlling other M$ systems for his DOS attacks.
I need to see proof of your accusations.
I'll get links on the next note.
See where I'm going with this yet?
yep, and it's all alarmist nonsense.
Under the auspices of Homeland Defense, MS will, eventually argue successfully that the consumer must be 'regulated ' and
'protected' from unsavoury characters on the internet, or any
operating systems that Homeland Security cannot regulate,
monitor, or control be rendered unusable to its US web content
and websites.
They'll argue. Cooler heads will prevail. The US Gov't tried to outlaw alcohol at one point in history. Outlawing OSS would be impossible at this point, not just because Uncle Sam uses it, but because you can't enforce it.
Let me counter that argument:
The US outlaws 'grass'. They've flown heads of security from the H.S. director himself, to the NYC coordinator, to Vancouver B.C. around 6 months ago to stop a safe ejection site from being introduced this September too. It didn't stop the Vancouver
Mayor, but it did piss the US government off.
Marijuana has been around for over 3000 years, and people use it on a regular basis. Heck, Levis Jeans was made with 'hemp', as were sails for the US Navy way back when.
Didn't stop the US government some time later from banning it's use or consumption within it's borders, now didn't it?
For example:
This senario is very much like it was around 100 years ago,
when cars were introduced to the USA, government was lobbied by the public to control high speed accidents, issue vehicle
insurance, driver's licenses, for safer roads.
to protect innocent bystanders -- child porn is also illegal even on your home computer.
Has the liciensing, speed limits, and insurance stopped or eliminated accidents yet? You know the answer to that about your particular region, and if yoiu drive, I'm pretty sure you've seen you fair share of idiots to boot.
comparing oranges and gravel.
or water with plants...
I don't think so, but governments went ahead and did it anyway, because it can generate money for them in the long run.
See this now?
no.
End my example...
hope you can do better than that.
So, nothing new here. Pretty soon, say within 3 to 10 years,
there will be a Windows OS you can operate via a RAM card ( with a Ram size that of a DVD or better I presume), that
can plug into a newer computer, and included on it all your personal, financial info, and anything else you
can dream up, to verify whom you really are.
Your own, portable OS, and your information, stored on a RAM CARD, to operate a computer appliance, to let you
email, play games, chat, send video, play/store purchased music,
make telephone calls, while permitting security people within the H.S. Division to review your email and your web habits,
to see if your an unsavoury character or not.
alarmist -- won't happen.
I'm not being an alarmist. I'm merely being observant. I follow trends, and this is where computing is going, eventually.
And LINUX, *BSD, and all the others? My guess is that they will be regulated to a home computer hobby product or banned altogether as 'UNSECURE' by MS standards.
you're frightening the children, but the adults here know Trolls don't exist.
And we adults also know that Trolls, Dragons, and other monsters descriptions were usually used to put a label on things we don't trust or understand, to create fear.
Another Example:
AOL dropped Netscape for 750 million USD. Microsoft bought it cheap. AOL and MS are now going to create a game, music and web business centre, pay for use. For music, something like what apple has done.
The States claim of unfair practices went no-where. Microsoft,
from what has been written recently, isn't even compling with the rules it was told to adhere to.
third time's a charm. Another few years and there'll be yet another anti-trust lawsuit. That may finally push things over the edge.
Gee, that rings a bell...
As the winner of the H.S. contract, wouldn't this contractor enjoy a certain amount of political protection from any sort of
legal and/or political attacks while working for the government?
Every other state and governor in the USA will eventually adopt the MS OS as a standard Citizen product, and Linux for what it
has evolved to, and how far it has to go, will be regulated
to computer science institutions and museums.
not hardly
I don't see anyone of those 16 states coming out this month asking the courts to penalize M$ with non-compliance yet.
Sure, Linux might survive for a while, but it will probably be used in Europe, South America, possibly Canada and Japan, but I think the US will stick with their 'home-grown' product of M$.
I like Linux, and hate Microsoft Products. Unless Linux itself becomes more profitable, and more companies start adopting it, Linux becomes more expensive to keep around.
The Fortune 1000 companies (a large percentage of them anyway) adopting
Linux isn't enough for you?
Well, let's just see where that SCO lawsuit goes.
If SCO wins, and SCO should not, you'll see those same companies dumping those disks faster than CFO shredding paper at ENRON.
I hope I'm wrong. I'll be very happy if I am.
Sleep secure that this won't happen.
Ciao,
David A. Bandel
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