On Fri, 21 Dec 2012 09:10:22 +0100 "J. Roeleveld" <jo...@antarean.org> wrote:
> On Thursday, December 20, 2012 09:31:36 AM Michał Górny wrote: > > On Thu, 20 Dec 2012 00:27:26 +0100 > > > > "J. Roeleveld" <jo...@antarean.org> wrote: > > > On Wednesday, December 19, 2012 09:13:28 AM Greg KH wrote: > > > > On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 08:21:36AM +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote: > > > > > On Mon, December 17, 2012 22:31, Greg KH wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 09:03:40PM +0100, J. Roeleveld wrote: > > > > > >> Olav Vitters <o...@vitters.nl> wrote: > > > > > >> >On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 09:29:26AM -0500, Richard Yao wrote: > > > > > >> >> As I said in an earlier email, Lennart Poettering claims that it > > > > > >> >> does > > > > > >> >> not work. We are discussing some of the things necessary to make > > > > > >> >> it > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >work. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >Just to repeat: > > > > > >> >In this thread it was claimed that a separate /usr is not > > > > > >> >supported by > > > > > >> >systemd/udev. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >A case which works with latest systemd on various distributions. I > > > > > >> >checked with upstream (not Lennart), and they confirmed it works. > > > > > >> >I > > > > > >> >can > > > > > >> >wait for Lennart to say the same, but really not needed. > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> >I assume this will again turn into a "but I meant something else". > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Olav. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Lennart has stated that he considers a seperate /usr without init* > > > > > >> broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, as do I, and so do a lot of other developers. > > > > > > > > > > It is only "broken", because upstream decided to move everything into > > > > > /usr > > > > > that was previously in /. > > > > > > > > No, not at all, please see the web page that describes, in detail, the > > > > problems that has been going on for quite some time now, with the /usr > > > > and / partitions and packages. > > > > > > > > > > > > http://freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/separate-usr-is-broken > > > > > > > > One good solution to this issue is to move everything into /usr, and > > > > that's something that has wonderful benifits in the long run, and is > > > > something that I expect all Linux distros to eventually implement. > > > > Those that don't, will suffer because of it. > > > > > > > > Again, see the web page for why moving stuff into /usr is a good idea > > > > for the reasons behind this. > > > > > > > > > http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge > > > > > > Example: /usr Network Share > > > When /usr is on a network share, why not add a / on network as well? > > > I have multiple systems and as they all have different uses, they all have > > > different software installed. > > > > > > Example: Multiple Guest Operating Systems on the Same Host > > > See answer to previous example. > > > > > > How many environments actually currently exist where a shared /usr is > > > being > > > used? > > > > Are you aware that these environments are actually one of the most > > important reasons for moving everything to /usr? I don't know what > > hackery you're using to keep the systems in sync and working but it is > > braindead enough. > > An init* needs to be kept in sync with the rest of the system as well. As > that > is a compressed filesystem, it takes a lot more effort to keep that in sync > in > comparison to a "normal" filesystem. > I consider having to write scripts to unpack, modify and repack an init* to > be > more hackery then to keep a bootable root-filesystem working that can mount > all the filesystems needed for the whole environment. > Anything needed to mount /usr, /var, /run (and any other part needed for the > boot-process) should not be allowed to depend on anything in any of those > directories prior to those being mountable. > > > The difference between keeping part of the system in rootfs > > and initramfs is that you can discard initramfs after using it. It can > > be anything which is enough to get the /usr mounted and system > > starting. Files on rootfs *have* to be in sync with those on /usr > > or you're getting random failures. > > The same is true for an init*. > If an update of part of the OS leads to subtle changes in the filesystem > where > older versions can no longer properly access them, the init* is broken. Just let me know when you have to maintain a lot of such systemd and upgrade, say, glibc. Then maybe you'll understand. -- Best regards, Michał Górny
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