On 2021-06-16 11:13, Michał Górny wrote:
1. Should we be proactively changing the default network in IRC clients (provided they have one) from Freenode to Libera.chat?1a. If yes, then should we also make a change if clients default to network other than Freenode?
Adding *our* network in case Libera.chat is missing, is one thing. Like adding branding for Gentoo.
But imagine the project behind the IRC client is located on EFnet and therefore they are defaulting their client to EFnet, we shouldn't mess with that because of the Freenode drama. There should be a separate discussion if we should add Gentoo branding by default to *every* package where possible in which case we can think about it.
2. Should we be proactively *removing* Freenode from the network list in IRC clients (provided they have one)?
No. Don't become part of a cancel culture where you disagree with someone and start to fight your enemy. We moved and are done with freenode. Gentoo is about choices. Our users should therefore be able to decide on their own. No need to make it harder to connect to a network we moved away from. And keep in mind: *Not* everyone has moved away from freenode, that's also part of the truth. And we shouldn't judge projects still located on freenode.
2a. Should we be adding Libera.chat to the list even if we do not remove Freenode?
See 1.
Quick recap for people that haven't been following the news or got confused in the lots of data: 1. Freenode was sold in 2017 to some guy who apparently wasn't supposed to interfere with its operations. 2. In 2021, the guy actively started to interfere, then formed a one-man Board and demanded full compliance.
The problem with a summary like that is, that you only present one view. I.e. the view of the "winner" (history is written by the victors). But part of the drama is that freenode owner said he was forced to take actions for legal reasons (new owner is held liable for whatever his staff is doing) after former staff refused to cooperate.
5. New Freenode staff (including some disreputable types) went angry about this and started automated reclamation of channels that indicated move to another network (including some channels that didn't because they failed at grep).
You could also have a different view on that: We (like many others) started to violate their TOS. It does not matter whether or not they created these TOS retrospectively: It's a proprietary/privately owned service. They can do whatever they like whenever they like. And they just did that. No question, an unpleasant move from our POV. But I know that many people don't like to hear or believe for some reasons that this could never happen to other services -- but this can happen at any time to our presence at Github and even what happened with freenode could happen with Libera.chat again. Both are proprietary and in the end privately owned. They can change rules without asking us and without even considering our interests.
Just imagine unknowing Gentoo users having their systems compromised through advice from trolls pretending to be Gentoo developers.
True. But this can happen wherever people talk about Gentoo. Even in our forums, mailing lists or official IRC channels. I would recommend everyone to relax a little bit. There will always be some imperfect situations like that we cannot control. We shouldn't start to overreact. Like we say, "Gentoo is about choice", have some faith in our users to deal with that.
Gentoo is done with freenode, we migrated away. There is no need for us take additional actions against freenode.
-- Regards, Thomas Deutschmann / Gentoo Linux Developer fpr: C4DD 695F A713 8F24 2AA1 5638 5849 7EE5 1D5D 74A5
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