On Wed, 1 Apr 2015 14:05:28 -0400 Rich Freeman <ri...@gentoo.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 1:50 PM, Róbert Čerňanský > <ope...@tightmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 11:31:15 +0100 > > Neil Bothwick <n...@digimed.co.uk> wrote: > > > >> On Mon, 30 Mar 2015 12:02:23 +0200, Stefan G. Weichinger wrote: > >> > >> > >> Hmm ... I don't think setting abi_x86_32 globally is > >> > >> necessary, unless you want to have 32bit libs for ALL > >> > >> packages that these exist for, whether you use them or not. > >> > >> I mean that for Skype you have no alternative at present, but > >> > >> if you don't use Skype then you would not need the 32bit > >> > >> versions of Skype's dependencies. If my understanding is > >> > >> wrong, Alan will soon put me right on this. :-) > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > You understand it just fine. > >> > > >> > OK, then so why do I have to edit files to tell the system to USE > >> > this and that after the system tells me it needs that ... ? > >> > > >> > Why isn't this taken care of within portage itself? > >> > >> Because this is Gentoo and you are in charge of portage, not the > >> other way around. Portage goes as far as it can without trampling > >> over your choices by saying "these are the changes I need you to > >> make, press Y to accept them". It's not like you have to add one > >> atom to package.use manually, run emerge again, add another etc. > > > > With --pretend and --ask options you would still be in charge. > > Execute 'emerge -pv foo', if you do not like the changes then tweak > > USE settings in package.use. I would not feel any less in control > > if I could see changes that portage wants to do and could force my > > USE settings in package.use. > > > > Honestly, I tend to agree with this approach. > > Imagine if when you typed "emerge kde-meta" the emerge program told > you that you need to add the following 400 lines to your package > installation list. Then we create a install-list-cleanup program that > looks at your world file and determines what stuff you have in your > package installation list that aren't needed any longer. Very good analogy. Except that for current USE flag situation we do not and even can not provide such install-list-cleanup program. There is no way to tell whether an entry in package.use is a user choice or it is there just to satisfy some dependency. Therefore no program can tell if it can be cleaned or not. Which is another manifestation why current approach is fundamentally wrong. > When it comes to what packages are installed the design is to have the > user stick the stuff they really care about in the world file and let > the PM figure out how to make it happen. You can override masks in > config files, but the general intent is that you don't have to do this > most of the time. Why not make USE flags work the same way? > > Why can't emerge steam figure out that half the system needs to be > rebuilt with 32-bit support, and then later emerge --depclean steam > figures out that half the system can be rebuilt without 32-bit > support? You could still specify global or package.use settings when > you have specific preferences, of course. However, you wouldn't have > to do that just to satisfy dependencies unless there is a blocker that > portage can't figure out itself. That is also analogous to what > happens when virtuals today - sometimes you have to manually > uninstall/install something to get portage past a block, and maybe > that will be needed with USE flags too. > > I think we've just gotten into a mode where we automate user > configuration instead of eliminating the need for it. > -- Róbert Čerňanský E-mail: ope...@tightmail.com Jabber: h...@jabber.sk
