Frank Steinmetzger wrote: > Am Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 07:45:25AM -0500 schrieb Dale: >> Mark Knecht wrote: >>>> Another question. My rig is getting a bit aged. I have a AMD FX-8350 8 >>>> core CPU running at 4GHz. I also have 32GBs of memory. I've read that >>>> Intel currently has the best bang for buck on CPUs nowadays. I'm open >>>> to the idea of switching. As far as speed goes, if I built a new rig >>>> that is using a reasonably cost CPU and memory, would I see any real >>>> improvements? >>> I think it all depends on what you're going to use the machine for and >>> whether you really use all your CPU for extended periods of time. > This! My mini PC with its passive 10 W Celeron N5100 is enough for desktop > use, including encrypted storage. But maybe not for Gentoo. :) > >>> […] >>> PixInsight has a benchmark program built in and all the results >>> are open to look at: >>> >>> https://pixinsight.com/benchmark/index.php?sort=cpu&os=all >>> >>> Interestingly I didn't find your processor even on the list > That’s probably because the FX processors are ooooold. Old and hungry. ^^ > >> Sometimes a CPU that costs $500 can only be just a fraction faster than a >> $200 CPU. > That’s still the case today for those impatient gamer enthusiasts who are > after the “longest bars” [in benchmarks]. The same goes for power > consumption. With Zen 4, AMD of course launched the fastest X-processors > first with a gargantuan power demand. A few months later the non-X were > released. They used 40 % or so less power at a performance cost of maybe 10 > % (not actual numbers, but figuratively speaking from memory). > >> Given that my rig, as you point >> out, sits here and waits on me to do something most of the time, that's >> a lot of money for something I won't see much time savings on. I might >> add tho, I do sometimes convert videos from 1080p to 720p. That makes >> the CPU max out pretty good. Compiling Libreoffice, Firefox etc also >> maxes out the CPU but those are what, once a month or so??? > Intel and AMD are giving themselves quite a race these days about who offers > more bang for the buck, or rather, more bang. In the past, Intel used to > have more to offer at the lower end (below 100 € CPUs, like Pentiums and > i3’s, while AMD was milking the market with high-end chips due to their > limited manufacturing capacities). > > If you want to save money and aim for a low-cost AMD APU (processor with > integrated graphics), you can get an older 3000-series Ryzen for a two-digit > price. It’ll still be much faster than your old FX at a fraction of the > power consumption. Like the 4300G, which is twice as fast for half the > electricity. With today’s processors, basically none of the socktetable > models are too slow unless you have specific performance requirements. > > With each generation, the architecture becomes more efficient, meaning more > instructions per cycle, lower consumption and so on. The max frequency is > not really the driving force behind performance increase anymore due to > efficiency issues at higher frequencies. > > Here are some benchmark comparisons from cpubenchmark.net: > > Processor year power cores single-core score multi-core score > FX-8350 2012 125 W 8/8 1580 6026 > i5-4590 2014 84 W 4/4 2086 5356 > i5-10400 2020 65 W 6/12 2580 12258 > R3 4300G 2020 65 W 4/8 2557 11017 > R5 5600G 2021 65 W 6/12 3185 19892 > R5 7600X 2022 145 W 6/12 4213 28753 > > Sources: > https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html#desktop-thread > https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+FX-8350+Eight-Core&id=1780 > https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-4590+%40+3.30GHz&id=2234 > https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-10400+%40+2.90GHz&id=3737 > https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+4300G&id=3808 > https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+5+5600G&id=4325 > https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+5+7600X&id=5033 > > You can see the increase in performance. My old i5-4590, at half the cores, > can keep up with your FX, even though it is only 1½ years younger. Ryzens > used to be more efficient in multi workloads (look at the 2020 entries). But > I’m not too sure about current generations due to Intel’s big-little > concept. > DDR5 and PCIe5 have higher requirements at signal quality, making the boards > and components much more expensive (and, again, more power hungry). That’s > why, even though DDR4 platforms are on their way out technologically, they > are still an economically sound choice. > >> I was also wondering what a mobo/CPU/memory combo would cost nowadays. >> Maybe someone who recently built a decent rig recalls how much they paid >> for those three. I don't go cheap on power supply but I don't require a >> lot for a video card or anything. Some spend half their money on a >> video card alone but I just don't need anything that fancy. > Any current Intel non-F CPU (F means no graphics) can cover your graphics > need. Finally, AMD caught up and started shipping a minimal graphics chip in > all of their processors with Zen 4, but as I said, that platform is still > expensive. > >> I got a Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 that drives both my monitor and my TVs >> through a splitter and it does just fine. > How cute. This should be about twice as fast as the integrated graphics in > my 8-year-old i5. So you’ll be fine with *any* integrated graphics (which > will also cut down on idle consuption, compared with a dGPU). > >> This is some good info tho. Maybe someone who built a rig recently can >> chime in on costs, US dollar would be nice. ;-) > As mentioned, DDR5 is still expensive. With DDR4 platforms getting older, > their prices are going down. The Ryzen 5 5600G is an excellent and efficient > processor (it’s basically a laptop chip in a desktop socket) and currently > can be had for around 125 € (including taxes of course, not sure about US > prices). It has over twice the single- and thrice the multi-core performance > of your FX chip. Its graphics are way overkill for you, but you never know. > ;-) > If you want to keep yout GPU, there’s also the Ryzen 5 5500, it has no > graphics and is only minutely slower than the 5600G, but can be had for less > than 100 €. > > > So, in summary (talking German consumer prices, meaning all taxes included, > but I think you can assume very similar $ pricse) for a not too fancy¹ system: > > Processor 120 € (or up top 150 € for a current i3/i5) > RAM 60 € 32 GB DDR4 (cheap RAM, low latency costs more, but has no real use > for your use case) > Board 100..120 € depending on I/O needs and quality. > > Going DDR5 means an increase in budget by at least 100 € for a 32 GB system. > > > ¹ As far as I can see, compiling packages is the most taxing thing you do, > which is why I don’t see you needing a big-rig processor. (Though I > understand the nice feeling you get from having one.) >
This is all good info. I went to Tom's Hardware and found their list by computing power. I try to find a generic power rating since what I use my rig for is more generic. No need looking at a chart for gaming. ;-) Anyway, I was looking at a somewhat costly Ryzen 7 5800x3d or a Ryzen 7 7700. I need to look at the details because I like having my own video card. That way I can use Nvidia but switch to something else if the need should arise. Plus, if the video stops working, replace card instead of whole mobo. I also have to have two outputs. One for desktop, one for TV. Based on your info tho, I could go down more in price and still have a much better CPU than the current one. One other thing, the mobos I keep finding have few PCIe slots. Some have 2 maybe 3. That's getting to be to few for me. I have a ethernet card, SATA expansion card plus a couple other things in mine that I use. Then my next thing, a case. The cases I find have a ton of lights, which I hate, but as far as layout and such, they suck. Some cost a arm and leg and they are worthless to me. I found one the other day that is fairly plain, holds 8 or 10 hard drives and has reasonably good cooling. I'm hoping I can get it. I don't think even Cooler Master makes a case like what I got anymore. I need more drive space but I love the cooling of my current case. The fans don't spin very fast but they move a LOT of air, quietly. Usually I look forward to building a new rig. Trying to find things I like takes the fun out of it. I'll get there tho. Eventually. Thanks for all the info. It helps me to know if I build a new rig, I will see a benefit speed wise. I want to get something out of it. lol Dale :-) :-)
