Seems planes are the best method then? 2008/12/9 Oliver Wingenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > Dear Andrew, > > Paul Crutzen suggested artillery. But this won't work. Never trust > the Germans with artillery. > > (Before I get any hate mail, Prof. Crutzen is not German. He is > Dutch. I am the only one in my family not born in Germany, so I guess > that makes me German.) > > Oliver Wingenter > > On Dec 8, 8:13 am, "Andrew Lockley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Please don't make personal digs just because I suggested an idea that >> may not work. >> >> Why is a nuclear bomb worse than a volcano anyway? >> >> And what about artillery as a method? >> >> 2008/12/8 Alvia Gaskill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> >> >> >> > The only people seriously considering using nuclear weapons to put lots of >> > particulate matter into the stratosphere live in the tribal areas of >> > Pakistan. Alan Robock showed what happens if India and Pakistan play >> > nuclear ping pong with their meager arsenals. The particulate matter >> > carried into the stratosphere absorbs enough solar energy to heat the >> > stratosphere to the point where reactions that destroy ozone are maximized. >> > The net result is that everyone and everything on the surface of the Earth >> > is killed by UV radiation. Now you wouldn't want that, would you Andrew? >> > Your organization is called Friends of the Earth, isn't it, although the >> > acronym FOE is a little disturbing. >> >> > I've looked at the delivery system issue (see the group files for some of >> > what I've written) and concluded that airplanes and balloons could be used. >> > To get precursor gas to circulate globally, it must be released above >> > 53,000 >> > ft, the boundary between the tropical tropopause and the stratosphere. In >> > fact, due to the fall rates of aerosol, it should be released at above >> > 65,000 ft to guarantee at least a one-year residence time in order to make >> > it practical. The B-52, the KC-135 and other large subsonic aircraft >> > cannot >> > fly this high, their ceilings right at around 50,000 ft. To fly as high as >> > would be necessary and carry enough payload to make it worthwhile would >> > require supersonic aircraft. I settled on the F-15c with a ceiling of >> > around 65,000 and the ability to carry about 8 tons of payload of which >> > half >> > could be the gas. >> >> > You are correct about the balloons in that using hydrogen as the lifting >> > gas >> > instead of helium doubles the lifting capacity. Using H2S instead of SO2 >> > doubles the precursor quantity that can be carried again as well. So >> > balloons containing hydrogen and H2S within the envelope of the balloon >> > could deliver the gas to the stratosphere in the quantities required and to >> > much higher altitudes as well, up to 120,000 ft. The technology to inflate >> > and recover payloads from large football stadium sized stratospheric >> > balloons exists today and has been used since the 1940's to deliver >> > payloads >> > of up to 8000 lbs to 120,000 ft and recover them. >> >> > The real issue about the delivery systems is whether or not the gas will >> > form the proper sized aerosol using the existing water vapor in the >> > stratosphere. This will requre field tests to determine its feasibility as >> > well as whether gas can be released from tanks quickly enough to vaporize >> > in >> > the time that the planes can spend in flight at these altitudes, probably >> > about an hour. Balloon residue can be addressed through a collection >> > program and I doubt the residue would come close to that already floating >> > in >> > the middle of the Pacific from land based plastic waste. Alan Robock's >> > statement in his AMS slides that "billions of weather balloons would be >> > required" is only accurate if weather balloons were used. High altitude >> > stratospheric balloons are not weather balloons. >> >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Andrew Lockley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> > Cc: <[email protected]> >> > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 6:14 AM >> > Subject: [geo] Re: delivering aerosols >> >> > As they are just converted old bombers you could easily convert a >> > different bomber to do the job. B52s are an obvious choice as there >> > are loads lying about and they are very large, reducing the costs. I >> > think they fly very high. >> >> > A >> >> > 2008/12/8 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> >> These planes cannot reach the sub-stratosphere at all. >> >> Gregory >> >> >> Has anyone looked at using firefighting planes to deliver aerosol >> >> particles? >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Andrew Lockley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> To: geoengineering <[email protected]> >> >> Sent: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 5:46 pm >> >> Subject: [geo] delivering aerosols >> >> >> Has anyone looked at using firefighting planes to deliver aerosol >> >> particles? These are designed to spray powder. There are a lot of >> >> them about in Northern latitudes, and for much of the year they really >> >> don't do a lot. >> >> >> I've seen several other methods, all of which have disadvantages: >> >> 1) Space lift - still scifi >> >> 2) Balloons - could work, but would have to be hydrogen, not helium >> >> due to the volumes needed. Unless the balloons are programmed to >> >> deflate and float back down, there will be a lot of 'litter'. To get >> >> a decent payload, a very large flammable balloon would be needed. >> >> 3) artillery - possibly useful, but may be a lot more polluting, >> >> expensive and energy intensive than a plane. >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> Listen to 350+ music, sports, & news radio stations – including songs for >> >> the holidays – FREE while you browse. Start Listening Now! > > >
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