The Arctic SO2 reduction is result of direct action of the industries to reduce 
emission of SO2 in the Arctic.

 

The Finnish Government began by installing SO2 catalysators and filtering 
systems in the industries to reduce acidification. It was then continued to 
cars and Finland began paying installation of SO2 removal from Russian 
facilities as economic aid to reduce the harmful effects of acid rain to the 
sensitive Arctic nature. SO2 reacts through sulphuric acid formation with soil 
mercury dissolving that into water which then ends up in ground water and 
lakes. The current efforts to reduce the Arctic SO2 levels are concentrated on 
Norilsk heavy industries by removing the emissions. The first projects we 
funded were the projects in Kola Peninsula (i.e. Nickel and Murmansk), State of 
Karelia (Kostamus) east of Finland, and around St. Petersburg. These have been 
addressed satisfactorily and the work is underway to equip Norilsk industrial 
facilities with filtration systems.  

 

I believe about 10 billion dollars have been used since early 1980's as due to 
the acid rains from Germany and Britain falling in Sweden and Finland, we could 
not have waited much longer as our food supplies like fist and drinking started 
to get sulphur and mercury in it. Finland and Sweden started to address their 
own SO2 emissions a decade before England and Germany removed their wind 
carried acid rain problems to the Nordic countries.

 

Rgs, Albert


 


CC: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; 
[email protected]; [email protected]; 
[email protected]
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: [geo] Re: NPR radio story on National Academy geoengineering workshop
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 10:42:58 -0400

Dear John:
On the second day of the NAS Geoengineering Meeting I asked the following 
question.  It was heard.


"Isn't there a risk that is immediate?  It is the loss of summer sea ice in the 
Arctic. How important is this risk?  I don't know, but the possible positive 
feedbacks are worrisome.  The only way to reduce this risk is geoengineering.  
It is the only strategy with the right time constant.  SRM can be limited to 
higher latitudes, and it may work as Ken Caldeira's modeling shows (although 
Alan Robock said he disagreed with Ken's methods if I heard the argument 
correctly).  The deployment decision would only involve a handfull of nations 
and indigenous populations.  It is a perfect limited application.  It puts a 
time clock on getting the needed research done.  This risk and its implications 
for the clock on geo has not been discussed.  How should this risk be treated 
by this workshop and by the ACC Committee as a whole." 


This question I raised was preceded by Mike MacCracken's observations about the 
impact of declining SO2 over the Arctic.  One doesn't have to go global on Geo 
to test things and to have a net positive impact was his message.  


What I didn't say because I didn't have the wit is that the Arctic could be the 
target of an intense R&D effort ranging from Governance isssues, ethics, as 
well as physical science and engineering.  It could anchor a much broader R&D 
effort that extends globally. 


Personally, I thought the NAS workshop was quite wonderful and very important.  
 I am convinced the full ACC Committee will reap great rewards from it.  We owe 
a debt to the people who organized and spoke at this meeting.
The best,
Bill    





On Jun 17, 2009, at 6:43 AM, John Nissen wrote:



Hi Gregory,

Thanks for that.  But I share Alvia's frustration that opportunities are 
lost at such meetings.  In particular I'm always disappointed that the 
issue of Arctic warming and sea ice retreat seems never to be mentioned 
- at least never reported.  I think we are all agreed that 
geoengineering to cool the Arctic and halt sea ice retreat is needed, 
for risk reduction (see the "Pros and Cons of geoengineering" thread).  
I don't think even Alan Robock would dispute that the risk of inaction 
is greater than the risk from possible side-effects (in particular 
monsoon weakening, which could actually be beneficial).

And I also share David Schnare's frustration, that we pussy-foot over 
the seriousness and urgency of the problem - the risk of not 
geoengineering in time.  Especially there is the risk that the Arctic 
warms sufficiently for massive methane release.  And it is a life and 
death issue, if ever there was one.  There is no way civilisation could 
survive the global warming that the methane could produce.

Re DARPA, I agree with you that they could be useful.  In particular, 
I'd like to see somebody treat global warming as an enemy (or at least 
as an extreme security threat), against which we need to use all the 
weapons at our disposal - together with some (such as Salter/Latham 
cloud brightening) that need to be developed.  Only when we see global 
warming as a lethal threat will our instinct to fight for survival cut 
in.  At present it seems that we, as a global society, are sleepwalking 
into oblivion.

Cheers,

John

---

[email protected] wrote:

All:



I agree with Ken that it's a tad dismaying that earnest efforts by NAS 

get deplored.



It's true we have some concrete agendas with a short time scale: the 

Arctic, and Slater/Latham methods, etc. Focus on those and set a firm 

ground for research. The Atlantic and other pieces are froth: neon ads 

for an actual set of ideas. Let them run; it's part of dealing with the 

many-heaqded moster of The Media.



The DARPA initiative Ken and I disagree on. They can be useful: their 

method is to put worked out possibilities on the table, mostly for 

other agencies. They developed the internet this way; I had an email 

address in 1969. But so often, they go first. I don't think DARPA 

automatically colors our efforts, any more than they did the internet 

we receive this email on. Or the mobile robots they encouraged these 

last ten years. Or...



Gregory Benford



-----Original Message-----

From: Margaret Leinen <[email protected]>

To: Alvia Gaskill <[email protected]>; [email protected]; 

geoengineering <[email protected]>

Sent: Tue, Jun 16, 2009 8:17 pm

Subject: [geo] Re: NPR radio story on National Academy geoengineering 

workshop





While many meetings indeed do little to advance thinking about

geoengineering, I think that the mere fact that the NAS convened this

meeting did a lot.  The study by the Royal Society, the workshop and the

inclusion of its results by the NAS in their 'climate c

hoices' study 

both

show substantial acceptance of the importance of geoengineering 

research by

mainstream academies.  This is enormous progress in a very short 

timeframe.

And the studies are important stepping stones to federal funding in the 

US.



The opportunity to attend the NAS workshop was on the web, but it wasn't

advertised, so I do understand the frustration about attendance.

--

Margaret Leinen, PhD.

Climate Response Fund

119 S. Columbus Street

Alexandria, VA 22314

202-415-6545










From: Alvia Gaskill <[email protected]>


Reply-To: <[email protected]>


Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:52:10 -0400


To: <[email protected]>, geoengineering 




<[email protected]>




Subject: [geo] Re: NPR radio story on National Academy geoengineering 




workshop




These meetings accomplish little or nothing as it is the same people 




saying




the same things over and over again.  Just filling up that resume.   




If you




are truly so conflicted about the subject, (doubt it) why don't you 




get out of




the business or better yet, stop interfering with others who are in 




it (The




I'm going to the DARPA meeting to stop it stunt you pulled a while 




back).




Better yet, next time you guys schedule one of these get togethers, 




you can




announce you are going to hold it so you can stop it.  At least 




announce it




far enough in advance so we can all plan not to go.  BTW, I've come 






up with a




new job description for people like Alan Robock and Dale Jameison:


Professional Critic.  Since they are both employed by universities, 




let's ad




an un to that.  Yeah, that sounds right:  Unprofessional Critic.  More


candidates as I get time.








 ----- Original


 Scientists Debate Shading Earth As Climate Fix


 by Richard Harris





 All Things Considered, June 16, 2009 ยท Engineering our climate to 




stop




global warming may seem like science fiction, but at a recent 




National Academy




of Sciences meeting, scientists discussed some potential 




geoengineering




experiments in earnest.





 Climate researcher Ken Caldeira was skeptical when he first heard 




about the




idea of shading the Earth a decade ago in a talk by nuclear weapons 




scientist




Lowell Wood.





 "He basically said, 'We don't have to bother with emissions 




reduction. We




can just throw aerosols - little dust particles - into the 




stratosphere, and




that'll cool the earth.' And I thought, 'Oh, that'll never work,' " 




Caldeira




said.





 But when Caldeira sat down to study this, he was surprised to 




discover that,




yes, it would work, and for the very same reasons that big volcanoes 




cool the




Earth when they erupt. Fine particles in the stratosphere reflect 




sunlight




back into space. And doing it would be cheap, to boot.





 Caldeira conducts res




earch on climate and carbon cycles at the 

Carnegie




Institution at Stanford University. During the past decade, he said, 




talk




about this idea has moved from cocktail parties to very sober 




meetings, like




the workshop this week put on by the National Academy of Sciences.





 "Frankly, I'm a little ambivalent about all this," he said during a 




break in




the meeting. "I've been pushing very hard for a research program, but 




it's a




little scary to me as it becomes more of a reality that we might be 




able to




toy with our environment, or our whole climate system at a planetary 




scale."




 Attempting to geoengineer a climate fix raises many questions, like 




when you




would even consider trying it. Caldeira argued that we should have the


technology at the ready if there's a climate crisis, such as 




collapsing ice




sheets or drought-induced famine. At the academy's meeting, Harvard


University's Dan Schrag agreed with that - up to a point.





 "I think we should consider climate engineering only as an emergency


response to a climate crisis, but I question whether we're already


experiencing a climate crisis - whether we've already crossed that 




threshold,"




Schrag said.





 In reality, carbon-dioxide emissions globally are on a runaway 




pace, despite




rhetoric promising to control them. University of Calgary's David 




Keith




suggested that we should consider moving to




ward experiments that 

would test




ideas on a global scale - and do it sooner rather than later.





 "It's not clear that during some supposed climate emergency would 




be the




right time to try this new and unexplored technique," Keith said.





 And experiments could create disasters. Alan Robock of Rutgers 




University




cataloged a long list of risks. Particles in the stratosphere that 




block




sunlight could also damage the ozone layer, which protects us from 




harsh




ultraviolet light. Or altering the stratosphere could reduce 




precipitation in




Asia, where it waters the crops that feed 2 billion people.





 Imagine if we triggered a drought and famine while trying to cool 




the




planet, Robock said. On the plus side, it's also possible that 




diffusing




sunlight could end up boosting agriculture, he said.





 "We need to evaluate all these different, contrasting impacts to 




see whether




it really would have an effect on food or not," he said. "Maybe it's 




a small




effect. We really don't know that yet. We need more research on that."





 Thought experiments to date have focused primarily on the risks of 




putting




sulfur dust in the stratosphere. There are many other geoengineering 




ideas -




like making clouds brighter by spraying seawater particles into the 




air. But




none of them is simple.





 "I don't think there is a quick and easy answer to




employing even 

one of




those quick and cheap and easy solutions," said social scientist 




Susanne




Moser.





 There's no mechanism in place to reach a global consensus about 




doing this -




and a consensus seems unlikely in any event. Who gets to decide where 




to set




the global thermostat? And will this simply become an excuse not to 




control




our emissions to begin with? These were all questions without answers 




at the




academy's meeting.





 Message -----


 From: Ken Caldeira


 To: geoengineering


 Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 6:17 PM


 Subject: [geo] NPR radio story on National Academy geoengineering 




workshop




 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105483423





 ___________________________________________________


 Ken Caldeira





 Carnegie Institution Dept of Global Ecology


 260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA





 [email protected]; [email protected]


 http://dge.stanford.edu/DGE/CIWDGE/labs/caldeiralab


 +1 650 704 7212; fax: +1 650 462 5968







































Bill Fulkerson, Senior Fellow
Institute for a Secure and Sustainable Environment
University of Tennessee
311 Conference Center Bldg.
Knoxville, TN 37996-4138
[email protected]
865-974-9221, -1838 FAX
Home
865-988-8084; 865-680-0937 CELL 
2781 Wheat Road, Lenoir City, TN 37771





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