All: I agree with Ken that it's a tad dismaying that earnest efforts by NAS get deplored.
It's true we have some concrete agendas with a short time scale: the Arctic, and Slater/Latham methods, etc. Focus on those and set a firm ground for research. The Atlantic and other pieces are froth: neon ads for an actual set of ideas. Let them run; it's part of dealing with the many-heaqded moster of The Media. The DARPA initiative Ken and I disagree on. They can be useful: their method is to put worked out possibilities on the table, mostly for other agencies. They developed the internet this way; I had an email address in 1969. But so often, they go first. I don't think DARPA automatically colors our efforts, any more than they did the internet we receive this email on. Or the mobile robots they encouraged these last ten years. Or... Gregory Benford -----Original Message----- From: Margaret Leinen <[email protected]> To: Alvia Gaskill <[email protected]>; [email protected]; geoengineering <[email protected]> Sent: Tue, Jun 16, 2009 8:17 pm Subject: [geo] Re: NPR radio story on National Academy geoengineering workshop While many meetings indeed do little to advance thinking about geoengineering, I think that the mere fact that the NAS convened this meeting did a lot. The study by the Royal Society, the workshop and the inclusion of its results by the NAS in their 'climate c hoices' study both show substantial acceptance of the importance of geoengineering research by mainstream academies. This is enormous progress in a very short timeframe. And the studies are important stepping stones to federal funding in the US. The opportunity to attend the NAS workshop was on the web, but it wasn't advertised, so I do understand the frustration about attendance. -- Margaret Leinen, PhD. Climate Response Fund 119 S. Columbus Street Alexandria, VA 22314 202-415-6545 > From: Alvia Gaskill <[email protected]> > Reply-To: <[email protected]> > Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 19:52:10 -0400 > To: <[email protected]>, geoengineering <[email protected]> > Subject: [geo] Re: NPR radio story on National Academy geoengineering workshop > > These meetings accomplish little or nothing as it is the same people saying > the same things over and over again. Just filling up that resume. If you > are truly so conflicted about the subject, (doubt it) why don't you get out of > the business or better yet, stop interfering with others who are in it (The > I'm going to the DARPA meeting to stop it stunt you pulled a while back). > Better yet, next time you guys schedule one of these get togethers, you can > announce you are going to hold it so you can stop it. At least announce it > far enough in advance so we can all plan not to go. BTW, I've come up with a > new job description for people like Alan Robock and Dale Jameison: > Professional Critic. Since they are both employed by universities, let's ad > an un to that. Yeah, that sounds right: Unprofessional Critic. More > candidates as I get time. > > > ----- Original > Scientists Debate Shading Earth As Climate Fix > by Richard Harris > > All Things Considered, June 16, 2009 ยท Engineering our climate to stop > global warming may seem like science fiction, but at a recent National Academy > of Sciences meeting, scientists discussed some potential geoengineering > experiments in earnest. > > Climate researcher Ken Caldeira was skeptical when he first heard about the > idea of shading the Earth a decade ago in a talk by nuclear weapons scientist > Lowell Wood. > > "He basically said, 'We don't have to bother with emissions reduction. We > can just throw aerosols - little dust particles - into the stratosphere, and > that'll cool the earth.' And I thought, 'Oh, that'll never work,' " Caldeira > said. > > But when Caldeira sat down to study this, he was surprised to discover that, > yes, it would work, and for the very same reasons that big volcanoes cool the > Earth when they erupt. Fine particles in the stratosphere reflect sunlight > back into space. And doing it would be cheap, to boot. > > Caldeira conducts res earch on climate and carbon cycles at the Carnegie > Institution at Stanford University. During the past decade, he said, talk > about this idea has moved from cocktail parties to very sober meetings, like > the workshop this week put on by the National Academy of Sciences. > > "Frankly, I'm a little ambivalent about all this," he said during a break in > the meeting. "I've been pushing very hard for a research program, but it's a > little scary to me as it becomes more of a reality that we might be able to > toy with our environment, or our whole climate system at a planetary scale." > > Attempting to geoengineer a climate fix raises many questions, like when you > would even consider trying it. Caldeira argued that we should have the > technology at the ready if there's a climate crisis, such as collapsing ice > sheets or drought-induced famine. At the academy's meeting, Harvard > University's Dan Schrag agreed with that - up to a point. > > "I think we should consider climate engineering only as an emergency > response to a climate crisis, but I question whether we're already > experiencing a climate crisis - whether we've already crossed that threshold," > Schrag said. > > In reality, carbon-dioxide emissions globally are on a runaway pace, despite > rhetoric promising to control them. University of Calgary's David Keith > suggested that we should consider moving to ward experiments that would test > ideas on a global scale - and do it sooner rather than later. > > "It's not clear that during some supposed climate emergency would be the > right time to try this new and unexplored technique," Keith said. > > And experiments could create disasters. Alan Robock of Rutgers University > cataloged a long list of risks. Particles in the stratosphere that block > sunlight could also damage the ozone layer, which protects us from harsh > ultraviolet light. Or altering the stratosphere could reduce precipitation in > Asia, where it waters the crops that feed 2 billion people. > > Imagine if we triggered a drought and famine while trying to cool the > planet, Robock said. On the plus side, it's also possible that diffusing > sunlight could end up boosting agriculture, he said. > > "We need to evaluate all these different, contrasting impacts to see whether > it really would have an effect on food or not," he said. "Maybe it's a small > effect. We really don't know that yet. We need more research on that." > > Thought experiments to date have focused primarily on the risks of putting > sulfur dust in the stratosphere. There are many other geoengineering ideas - > like making clouds brighter by spraying seawater particles into the air. But > none of them is simple. > > "I don't think there is a quick and easy answer to employing even one of > those quick and cheap and easy solutions," said social scientist Susanne > Moser. > > There's no mechanism in place to reach a global consensus about doing this - > and a consensus seems unlikely in any event. Who gets to decide where to set > the global thermostat? And will this simply become an excuse not to control > our emissions to begin with? These were all questions without answers at the > academy's meeting. > > Message ----- > From: Ken Caldeira > To: geoengineering > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 6:17 PM > Subject: [geo] NPR radio story on National Academy geoengineering workshop > > > http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=105483423 > > ___________________________________________________ > Ken Caldeira > > Carnegie Institution Dept of Global Ecology > 260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA > > [email protected]; [email protected] > http://dge.stanford.edu/DGE/CIWDGE/labs/caldeiralab > +1 650 704 7212; fax: +1 650 462 5968 > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. 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