Hi Alvin,
I enclose below our feedback to your query and comments. Douglas J. Kennett, a University of Oregon archaeologist who is the lead author of the Science paper, said no Clovis points or bones of the extinct animals had been found above the diamond layer. “It seems those two things synchronously end,” he said. We agree this too, when the melt-back of terrestrial ice occurred, the methane clathrates got reburied with the sinking seafloor so there we no more those fireballs (what Mark Lynas in his book suggests that may start re-occurring once again if sea warms up too much). The diamonds were only created at the time methane explosions occurred when sea beds were exposed to direct sunlight and there was initial warming before unstable ice started to flood. Once water re-filled seas and methane clathrates re-stabilised, there was no more supply of these huge methane blasts to create further diamond dusting. But most importantly: the lake had many spillovers and the last one bursted its banks catastrophically, how about comets hitting every time the lake spillt over its banks to cause a flood recorded. Comet argument isn't convincing for the First Nations people at all. Most "white American scientists" have probably never heard of Lake Agassiz and would not be part of any conspiracy anyway if one actually existed. Well, I agree that most American scientists don't know about Lake Agassiz, but most First Nations people do, though they never met Dr. Agassis and had given their own name (long before him) for the lake that existed there before the Great Lakes (that are residue of it). Why should anyone believe the myths passed down from generation to generation of people with no written language instead of data collected using modern scientific methods? The UN complaint is made using a reference which remains in First Nations' inscriptions for 14 centuries. As the intelligence and DNA are the same, the disparity of the First Nations contributions as primary contributors (not as secondary players to the colonialist) history writing is virtually non existent. The First Nations had to have same intellectual capacity to deal with whatever nature threw at them and this matter is being looked at due to bias. 14 centuries, more or less of age, written or not, is not at all relevant to ice age claims anyway, 14 centuries just shows these native histories existed well before European arrival, (let alone the 19th century rise of interest in ice ages and paleoclimates). Michel Halbwach is a world authority in defusing methane explosions and nucleation hazards and the manager of 3 schemes to pump methane and carbon dioxide out before it reaches catastrophic tipping point and starts to nucleate and sizzle out uncontrollably. The nulceation of methane and carbon dioxide causes explosion, fire and toxic cloud hazards. Please note that comments I made were not personal, or I should have made it just clearer. In fact, the whole idea of comet falling and ending ice age isn't you to blame. Kr, Albert From: [email protected] To: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] CC: [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: Alvin's Lake Agassiz Comet not Appealing Idea to the First Nations Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:20:03 -0400 The diamond layer was also found in Arizona and Germany indicative of a global pattern of dispersal of the fragments. The type diamonds found could not have been formed by the natural gas explosion as you suggest. The Tunguska impact site also has a pattern of tree damage and fall that fits that of a large object impacting or exploding near the ground. This Michel Halbwachs you cite as an expert in mitigating clathrate explosions, what is his approach? Finally, enough of this "white American scientist" crap. Why should anyone believe the myths passed down from generation to generation of people with no written language instead of data collected using modern scientific methods? There may be some basis for it, but you cannot simply ignore scientific evidence and dismiss all of it as part of some racially motivated conspiracy to keep the Inuit impoverished. Most "white American scientists" have probably never heard of Lake Agassiz and would not be part of any conspiracy anyway if one actually existed. January 2, 2009 Diamonds Linked to Quick Cooling Eons Ago By KENNETH CHANG At least once in Earth’s history, global warming ended quickly, and scientists have long wondered why. Now researchers are reporting that the abrupt cooling — which took place about 12,900 years ago, just as the planet was emerging from an ice age — may have been caused by one or more meteors that slammed into North America. That could explain the extinction of mammoths, saber-tooth tigers and maybe even the first human inhabitants of the Americas, the scientists report in Friday’s issue of the journal Science. The hypothesis has been regarded skeptically, but its advocates now report perhaps more convincing residue of impact: a thin layer of microscopic diamonds found in rocks across America and in Europe. “We’re up over 30 sites, as far west as offshore California, as far east as Germany,” said Allen West, a retired geology consultant who is one of the scientists working on the research. The meteors would have been smaller than the six-mile-wide meteor that struck the Yucatán peninsula 65 million years ago and led to the mass extinctions of the dinosaurs. The killing effects of the hypothesized bombardment 12,900 years ago would have been more subtle. Climatologists believe that the direct cause of the 1,300-year cold spell, known as the Younger Dryas, was a sudden rush of fresh water from a giant lake in central Canada to the North Atlantic. Usually a surface current of warm water flows northward in the Atlantic toward Greenland and Europe, then cools and sinks, returning south in the deep ocean. But the fresh water, which is less dense, blocked the sinking of the cold, salty water in the North Atlantic, disrupting the currents. That sudden change in plumbing has long been known, but what caused it has never been satisfactorily explained. The authors of the paper in Science say it was meteors. At each site the scientists looked at, the diamond layer in the rocks correlates to the date of the hypothesized impact. Within the layer, the scientists report finding a multitude of diamond particles, all encased within carbon spheres. “We’ve yet to find a single diamond above it,” Dr. West said. “We’ve yet to find a single diamond below it.” Perhaps more telling, the scientists reported last month at a meeting of the American Geophysical Union in San Francisco, the carbon atoms inside some of the diamonds are lined up in a hexagonal crystal pattern instead of the usual cubic structure. The hexagonal diamonds, formed by extraordinary heat and pressure, have been found only at impact craters and within meteorites and cannot be formed in forest fires or volcanic eruptions, Dr. West said. Last year the scientists presented other evidence of an impact, including elevated levels of the element iridium. At least some skeptics are not convinced. “The whole thing still does not make sense, and there are lots of contradictions,” said Christian Koeberl, a professor of geological sciences at the University of Vienna in Austria. His chief reservation is that there is no crater. “A body of this size does not just blow up without a trace in the atmosphere,” Dr. Koeberl said. “Physics won’t have it.” Proponents have suggested that the meteor hit an ice sheet a couple of miles thick or that there was a series of smaller objects that exploded in the air. But Dr. Koeberl said something hitting an ice sheet would still generate a hole in the ground underneath, and he questioned whether smaller impacts or air explosions would produce the shock waves needed to make diamonds. An impact should also have left remnants of melted rocks and shocked minerals, Dr. Koeberl said. But if true, the hypothesis could explain the disappearance of ice age mammals like mammoths and argue against the alternative idea that the animals were hunted to extinction by humans. It might also help explain the disappearance of the Clovis people, a culture named after a distinctive arrow point discovered in a mammoth skeleton in Clovis, N.M., who are believed to have arrived in the Americas more than 13,000 years ago. Douglas J. Kennett, a University of Oregon archaeologist who is the lead author of the Science paper, said no Clovis points or bones of the extinct animals had been found above the diamond layer. “It seems those two things synchronously end,” he said. Dr. Kennett said there also appeared to be a gap of several centuries between the disappearance of the Clovis and the resettlement by other people. Gary Huss, a scientist at the University of Hawaii, Manoa, who was one of the early reviewers of the paper in Science, said though the scientists had not proved their case, they had offered enough evidence that the idea warranted a closer look by others. “They have a hypothesis that explains several things that hard to explain any other way,” Dr. Huss said. “Diamonds are less convincing by themselves, but they strengthen their case considerably.” ----- Original Message ----- From: Veli Albert Kallio To: John Nissen ; [email protected] Cc: [email protected] ; [email protected] ; John Davies ; [email protected] ; Geoengineering FIPC Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 8:36 AM Subject: Alvin's Lake Agassiz Comet not Appealing Idea to the First Nations The First Nations do not recall any extraterrestrial projectile being involved in the collapse of Lake Agassiz, this lake bursted its banks due to overflow problems and the permafrost ice melting away within its moraine banks that had held back the water. The lake had - on several previous occasions - posed problematic floods prior to the catastrophic collapse to St. Lawrence. If so, a whole swarm of comets would have had to fall one after another to Lake Agassiz, a good sci-fi theory, which makes all the First Nations' people to laugh at this perceived "scientific wisdom" of the white American scientists. We propose that the micro-diamond dust was formed in the on-shore and off-shore methane clathrate explosions as permafrost and sea beds melted, events like redirected rivers running over ice-and-permafrost covered gas fields, and the Arctic sea bed methane clathrate explosions and the immense heat and pressures in the fireballs creating the diamond dust. We are propose that the Lake Cheko in Tungusga is an on-shore methane explosion crater site and in June 1908 there were an ice dam that redirected the spring flood and river water to cross over a permaforst held gas field, the roof melting and giving in. The gas integrity failure occurred, the gas coming out and the huge river falling in and the methane laden water accummulated nucleating and releasing methane and carbon dioxide. We have also looked possibility to carry out expedition to Lake Cheko to measure whether its conical deep water basin is methane and carbon dioxide laden and seeded by organic methane or volcanic methane (there are some old volcanism also in the area). Lake Kiwu is another saturated lake laden with enormous amount of dissolved methane and carbon dioxide that could nucleate like soda water. Michel Halbwachs is an expert in mitigating this type risk and I have already suggested him to come to the Arctic region to have a look at deep water pockets as methane clathrates disintgrate and the released their methane which is also partially converted by microbes to carbon dioxide, the sudden nucleation of this mixture causing a possibility of large scale fatal suffocation and explosions as seen on the 22,000 craters dotting the sea beds of Siberia, some of the gas pockets being on land and held together only by layers of ice and permafrost mud that easily ruptures if flood occurs, or the continued loss of permafrost weakens the ceiling of the cavities. The west Siberian gas fields are better mapped and well depleted by extractive industries whereas on the eastern Russia, the lay out and distribution of methane pockets are still quite unknown as they are economically difficult to develop and have not attracted the interest of the extractive industries. At Campaing agaist Climate Change meeting at London School of Economics, Russian government had suggested that gas field containment integrity failures could soon lead to gas distribution problems to Europe as the gas leaks directly out to the birds rather than runs into gas pipes if the ceilings of some of their fields weaken further by the permafrost thinning. When Caspian Sea heading water was redirected in 1950's to fill reservoir, massive 500 meter tall methane flarings started to occur, all these stuff may create microdiamons by heat and the pressures and we do not need a chain of comets to fall Lake Agassiz. John Nissen: P.S. I was interested in Alvia's point about lake Agassiz dam being bust by meteors (or comet), and found this reference: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/science/02impact.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=nanodiamonds&st=cse ----- Original Message ----- From: Alvia Gaskill Various theories have been advanced for the collapse of the ice dam, but the most likely one now seems to be a comet strike in eastern Canada that also caused massive wildfires, killing off most of the large mammals in N. America along with the Clovis people of New Mexico. Soot and quartz particles found at the proposed impact site seem to confirm an extraterrestrial source of the event. There is no evidence that Greenland was affected by the comet strike. The explanation for the much shorter cooling period of around 8000 years ago also seems to be related to a discharge from Lake Agassiz, although that one is also still debated. Windows Live Messenger: Celebrate 10 amazing years with free winks and emoticons. 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