I agree with Alvia about some of the environment left. I call those who oppose most new environmental engineering "Dark Greens". They can be easy to detect because many if not most of their arguments end with "there are just too many people", leaving the listener wondering what solution is implied by that statement and whether I or thee must be sacrificed. I call myself a "Light Green" because I believe that wise use of technology offers hope for the future.
= Stuart = Stuart E. Strand 167 Wilcox Hall, Box 352700, Univ. Washington, Seattle, WA 98195 voice 206-543-5350, fax 206-685-3836 http://faculty.washington.edu/sstrand/ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Alvia Gaskill Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 4:06 AM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: [geo] Re: we're engineering the arctic now I registered for Dot Earth, but for some reason, the message on this particular one won't allow me to log in. So I ask for you to post it if you wish. Without human interference, the interglacial would still take at least several thousand years to end and the ice sheets to return to cover the northern hemisphere. With it, the interglacial continues. Most likely, the CO2 we have added to the atmosphere will have been removed by some form of air capture in 100-200 years (sorry to disappoint David Archer et al.). Thus, we will have had no impact on preventing the return of the Laurentide Ice Sheet and related ones in Europe and Asia. UNLESS we take the lessons learned from our inadvertent intervention into the climate system and use it to our benefit. One of the definitions of geoengineering that is often used is that of "deliberate modification of Earth's environment on a large scale to suit human needs and promote habitability." The needs of the present are to stop the effects of global warming before the planet becomes uninhabitable for humans. Geoengineering in this instance is the use of technologies that stop global warming without reducing emissions of CO2 and other greenhouse gases. But once we can can control the CO2 level in the atmosphere, do we really want it to return to the pre-industrial level? Probably so. That was the level that allowed a stable climate and for human civilization to develop. At some point, probably thousands of years from now, we will want to counteract the natural cycle and prevent the interglacial from ending. By then, we will have developed far more advanced technologies of all types than today and adjusting the climate will be relatively simple. Assuming we survive our current experience with global warming, we will be able to build on it and develop the technologies to modify climate to our needs, back to the first definition. Not surprisingly, there are those on the environmental left who would welcome the return of the ice sheets. One poster at the geoengineering group even said he thought we should allow the ice sheets to cover Canada and the northern U.S. again because the glaciers would scrape up more minerals that could be used. Like we are expecting a shortage of iron and nickel in 8000 AD? He then went on to imagine that the survivors (NY Times won't be able to publish under 2 miles of ice, sorry Andy, must change name of blog to Dot Ice) could all go and live in the tropics, where, of course, food will still be limited due to changes in precipitation and in the subtropics, winds will howl most of the time. The ice age was no picnic, even in the southern U.S. How people come to view humans, their own species as the enemy beats me. We've made some mistakes and they have cost us and other species. But at least we are on the path to the 12 step recovery program by recognizing we have a problem. Is the answer to alcoholism to shoot all the drunks? An even more extreme view shared by many, but voiced by few (for understandable reasons) is that humans are an invasive species that should be eliminated from the planet! Moi kudzu? Do I look like a zebra mussel to you? For this select crowd, I have come up with a suitable name. Cutterites. After the character in the BBC TV series Primeval, Helen Cutter, who became such a misanthrope she went back in time and tried to eliminate all the early humans. I'm sure Helen would not be in favor of continuing the interglacial either. And what happened to her experiment in preventative extinction? She was crushed by a dinosaur that followed her through one of her time portals. Gotta watch out for that technology. It'll get you when you least expect it. Alvia Gaskill Pro-Human Lobbyist ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Revkin" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:40 PM Subject: [geo] we're engineering the arctic now > > http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/04/science/earth/04arctic.html > http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/03/humans-may-have-ended-long-arctic-chill/ > > we may be able to 'skip' the next ice age in fact. > would love your thoughts in the comments section. > > -- > Andrew C. Revkin > The New York Times / Environment > 620 Eighth Ave., NY, NY 10018 > Tel: 212-556-7326 Mob: 914-441-5556 > Fax: 509-357-0965 > http://www.nytimes.com/revkin > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
