Wont the salt spray melt the icebergs? On Oct 4, 12:36 am, "Peter Read" <[email protected]> wrote: > Just a thought > Once you've got the ice bergs to stop near an entrance to this or some other > channel then maybe spend all winter spraying salt water onto it that freezes > and gradually weighs the bergs down till they sit on the bottom. Then spray > some more on so it sits on the bottom good and hard. And then some more to > make sure there's enough left at the end of the summer. > How many tons of salt water spray? How much fuel to shift it?? How much CO2 > emitted??? More harm than good ???? > Anyway, maybe the channel will block up enough all the way back to where the > glacier is falling into the water and stop it from sliding off Greenland (or > Antacrtica) and all will be well ?? > Or do some people live up this channel? Do they want to get in and out in > summer time?? Maybe build a road. Or shift them like the Tuvalese. > Politics again. Hmmm. > Peter > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Nissen > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] ; Geoengineering ; Risto Isomaki ; Esko Pettay > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:42 PM > Subject: [geo] Re: Robeson Channel Suitable for Suspension Cabling to Block > Prevent Southward Ice Movement > > Hi all, > > Some time ago, Albert and I discussed cables and barriers at length - and > at a length to cross straits. You really want a valve, that will let ice > flow in one direction (North) but not the other (South). It's quite > difficult to do that with a cable. > > My thoughts are that a floating barrier might be best. It can be rounded > and point into the ice, so that ice pressure becomes a compression of the > barrier. Basically what you want is to create an ice jam of ice flows (or > icebergs) on one side of the barrier which would then take most of the > pressure as the ice builds up. The barrier could be made across a fjord or > across straits. > > The barrier would be made of sections, so it could come apart to let ice > flow in the opposite direction (possibly in two sections, like canal lock > gates). The barrier could possibly be made out of pykrete [1], which has > excellent compressional strength (over twice as strong as normal ice) and > good tensile strength as well (much better than concrete) to give it > rigidity, while having a density less than water so it floats (just). > > One major problem with such a barrier (across straits) could be when the > wind is from the North, while the sea current is from the South, keeping the > barrier open. > > BTW, I've seen recent research suggesting that there is a stable weather > condition which can sit over the North Pole, with winds which tend to > disperse the ice. This condition is considered to have been instrumental in > the unprecedented sea ice retreat in 2007. Perhaps one of you can find a > reference, please. > > Cheers from Chiswick, > > John > > [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pykrete > > Mike MacCracken wrote: > What about doing this across Jakobshaven and other fjords that allow ice > streams to flow rapidly? > > Mike > > On 10/1/09 9:25 AM, "Veli Albert Kallio" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Dear All, > > Please find enclosed a brief satellite animation on the Robeson Channel > from this summer which suggest that use of bridge-style suspension cabling > could hold ice in place and prevent it moving into the warm waters further > along the channel between Ellesmere Island and Greenland. The link attached > below which shows the summertime ice movements. > > The shortest suspension cables would be Ellesmere - Hans Island - > Greenland each stretch about 10 kilometres in length. (The concept is to > create ice congestion behind barrier that is self-locking jam of pack ice > behind cable that remains longer in the cold waters.) > > On the negative side, the ice amount south of any successful cable > barriers will decrease. The impact of cables for boats, whales and perhaps > other large fish and wild life would also have to be addressed. After > melting, the barrier cable is lowered to the seafloor when ice is on > northward move or there is a lack of ice, the barrier is raised up to surface > whenever there is ice flow moving southward. It is also raised up to surface > for the winter freeze. > > In Nunavut, the suspension cabling could help to keep the North West > Passage clear of thick sea ice floes that damage ships while preserving ice > on the north side of the channel. This might help justify such a system at > least in Nunavut. The profile of the Swalbard Islands and Franz Joseph Land > could also be enlarged by blocking the straights by cables. This would > increase the ice congestion behind these archipelagoes and decrease some sea > ice escape from the high Arctic Basin. > > I have not considered blocking of the Fram Staight due to its width, > but materially the largest amount of sea ice loss through escape will occur > there. The barriers can slow down ice movement and loss to the south due to > decreases in ice movements but if ice melts away due to warm weather behind > barrier, these measures become all but useless. > > Kind regards, > > Albert > > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Greenpeace dokumentoi pohjoisen pallonpuoliskon jäätiköiden > sulamista > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 14:18:14 +0300 > > > http://www.greenpeace.org/finland/fi/mediakeskus/lehdistotiedotteet/g...<http://www.greenpeace.org/finland/fi/mediakeskus/lehdistotiedotteet/g...> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > View your Twitter and Flickr updates from one place - Learn more! > <http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/137984870/direct/01/> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG -www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.115/2405 - Release Date: 09/30/09 > 10:35:00- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
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