Don't think so Salty Arctic freezes over in winter, so salty spray all the faster? Polar winters are nature's great refridgerators, just trying to think of how to spread the cold to where and when it would be useful. But Albert's long message is much food for thought Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "VNBC INC" <[email protected]> To: "geoengineering" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 2:37 AM Subject: [geo] Re: Robeson Channel Suitable for Suspension Cabling to Block Prevent Southward Ice Movement
Wont the salt spray melt the icebergs? On Oct 4, 12:36 am, "Peter Read" <[email protected]> wrote: > Just a thought > Once you've got the ice bergs to stop near an entrance to this or some > other channel then maybe spend all winter spraying salt water onto it that > freezes and gradually weighs the bergs down till they sit on the bottom. > Then spray some more on so it sits on the bottom good and hard. And then > some more to make sure there's enough left at the end of the summer. > How many tons of salt water spray? How much fuel to shift it?? How much > CO2 emitted??? More harm than good ???? > Anyway, maybe the channel will block up enough all the way back to where > the glacier is falling into the water and stop it from sliding off > Greenland (or Antacrtica) and all will be well ?? > Or do some people live up this channel? Do they want to get in and out in > summer time?? Maybe build a road. Or shift them like the Tuvalese. > Politics again. Hmmm. > Peter > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Nissen > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] ; Geoengineering ; Risto Isomaki ; Esko > Pettay > Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:42 PM > Subject: [geo] Re: Robeson Channel Suitable for Suspension Cabling to > Block Prevent Southward Ice Movement > > Hi all, > > Some time ago, Albert and I discussed cables and barriers at length - and > at a length to cross straits. You really want a valve, that will let ice > flow in one direction (North) but not the other (South). It's quite > difficult to do that with a cable. > > My thoughts are that a floating barrier might be best. It can be rounded > and point into the ice, so that ice pressure becomes a compression of the > barrier. Basically what you want is to create an ice jam of ice flows (or > icebergs) on one side of the barrier which would then take most of the > pressure as the ice builds up. The barrier could be made across a fjord or > across straits. > > The barrier would be made of sections, so it could come apart to let ice > flow in the opposite direction (possibly in two sections, like canal lock > gates). The barrier could possibly be made out of pykrete [1], which has > excellent compressional strength (over twice as strong as normal ice) and > good tensile strength as well (much better than concrete) to give it > rigidity, while having a density less than water so it floats (just). > > One major problem with such a barrier (across straits) could be when the > wind is from the North, while the sea current is from the South, keeping > the barrier open. > > BTW, I've seen recent research suggesting that there is a stable weather > condition which can sit over the North Pole, with winds which tend to > disperse the ice. This condition is considered to have been instrumental > in the unprecedented sea ice retreat in 2007. Perhaps one of you can find > a reference, please. > > Cheers from Chiswick, > > John > > [1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pykrete > > Mike MacCracken wrote: > What about doing this across Jakobshaven and other fjords that allow ice > streams to flow rapidly? > > Mike > > On 10/1/09 9:25 AM, "Veli Albert Kallio" <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Dear All, > > Please find enclosed a brief satellite animation on the Robeson Channel > from this summer which suggest that use of bridge-style suspension cabling > could hold ice in place and prevent it moving into the warm waters further > along the channel between Ellesmere Island and Greenland. The link > attached below which shows the summertime ice movements. > > The shortest suspension cables would be Ellesmere - Hans Island - > Greenland each stretch about 10 kilometres in length. (The concept is to > create ice congestion behind barrier that is self-locking jam of pack ice > behind cable that remains longer in the cold waters.) > > On the negative side, the ice amount south of any successful cable > barriers will decrease. The impact of cables for boats, whales and perhaps > other large fish and wild life would also have to be addressed. After > melting, the barrier cable is lowered to the seafloor when ice is on > northward move or there is a lack of ice, the barrier is raised up to > surface whenever there is ice flow moving southward. It is also raised up > to surface for the winter freeze. > > In Nunavut, the suspension cabling could help to keep the North West > Passage clear of thick sea ice floes that damage ships while preserving > ice on the north side of the channel. This might help justify such a > system at least in Nunavut. The profile of the Swalbard Islands and Franz > Joseph Land could also be enlarged by blocking the straights by cables. > This would increase the ice congestion behind these archipelagoes and > decrease some sea ice escape from the high Arctic Basin. > > I have not considered blocking of the Fram Staight due to its width, but > materially the largest amount of sea ice loss through escape will occur > there. The barriers can slow down ice movement and loss to the south due > to decreases in ice movements but if ice melts away due to warm weather > behind barrier, these measures become all but useless. > > Kind regards, > > Albert > > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Greenpeace dokumentoi pohjoisen pallonpuoliskon jäätiköiden > sulamista > Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 14:18:14 +0300 > > http://www.greenpeace.org/finland/fi/mediakeskus/lehdistotiedotteet/g...<http://www.greenpeace.org/finland/fi/mediakeskus/lehdistotiedotteet/g...> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > View your Twitter and Flickr updates from one place - Learn more! > <http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/137984870/direct/01/> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG -www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.115/2405 - Release Date: > 09/30/09 10:35:00- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. 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