John,

The approach of the IMechE in the UK seems to be pretty sensible.  They
argue for an approach (I've) nicknamed the 3-legged stool:  Mitigation,
adaptation and geoengineering.  I think we need to be pushing a
similarly-integrated policy.

As for John's arguments for 'Geoeng now', I'm afraid I don't agree.  Even
though the delivery methods might seem trivial, there are all sorts of
problems which may arise with sulfur distribution.  It would be premature to
try a full-scale rollout when no-one's even tested a single balloon or
tanker-full of H2S or SO2.

Furthermore, we simply don't know if we need Geoengineering immediately.  I
see no evidence which suggests that we're just about to pass a tipping point
with Arctic sea ice, or anywhere else, that can't be stopped unless we
geoengineer now as opposed to a few years later.  Sure, I buy the argument
that we need geoengineering soon, but do we need it tomorrow?  I very much
doubt it.  If we're overly hasty, and lack proper support for our rushed
approach, then we'll risk alienating people at a crucial time.  Far better
to do solid research on the scale and timing of deployment needed, and
concurrently engineer a detailed plan for action.  Right now, we don't
appear to have either, so let's not start the journey before getting the car
running nicely.

A
PS I went to the Wave in London yesterday.  That's my climate karma sorted
for the week :-)  I didn't see anyone from this list

2009/11/27 John Nissen <[email protected]>

>
> Hi all,
>
> I am afraid that we have lost one of the wisest of members of our group.  I
> am copying two of Peter Read's last postings before he died.  I think he was
> as concerned as anybody for the future of the planet, although he knew he
> was leaving it soon.  Here he is suggesting some practical things to do
> immediately for the Arctic, especially to protect the Greenland ice sheet.
>
> ---
>
> [quote 1]
>
> John
>
> If it is to impact on policy -- I guess policy-makers are the intended
> audience but how to get the message to them is another question -- it is
> important to realise there are quite likely a fair number of deniers out
> there.  It is no good just saying [or implying] they are wrong since
> confrontation is not good conflict resolution.
>
> I think the "simple argument" should be put in terms of risk management.
> We may be wrong but the cost of failing to act, if we are right, is
> catastrophic whereas the cost of being needlessly prepared, if we are wrong,
> is trivial. e.g.
>
>    - Stocking sulphur at places where it can be lifted to the stratosphere
>    - Designing and testing delivery systems
>    - Sorting the logistics for mass producing rockets or aircraft or
>    whatever is to be used; and building an initial fleet of them
>    - Training pilots or rocket engineers
>    - Other things that experts can doubtless think of
>    - And building and testing a few Salter ships
>
> All peanuts.
>
> Risk management also bears on how scientifically certain we are.  We should
> aim to achieve policy-maker recognition of the Art 3.3 commitment to *
> cost-effective* precautionary action *in the absence of full scientific
> certainty*.
>
> So we don't need to be certain that the ice-sheet will definitely become
> unstable.
>
> And Kyoto style emissions reductions are not only ineffective but also high
> cost compared with many carbon removals options.
>
> The only way to get scalable low cost emissions reductions is the grow the
> fuel and then progressively substitute biomass for fossil fuel.  Yes, there
> are low hanging fruit in the efficiency and ambient energy directions but
> they don't scale up because of the intermittent nature of the supply or the
> difficulty of persuading busy people to think about complicated technologies
> that impact on a small portion of the household budget.
>
> Defossilization is easy (low cost) and can be done in a few decades,
> decarbonization is hard (costly) and would take a century, replacing most of
> the existing energy sector capital stock.
>
> If you want it, I would be happy to contribute to the honed message that
> Ken proposes
>
> Peter
>
> ---
>
> [quote 2]
>
>
> I used sulphate as an example because my understanding is that this is the
> only SRM technology that we are confident would work.  I think your
> interesting recent paper confirms that view, although it mentions a number
> of other technologies that look very interesting.
>
> I much prefer Salter's ships but we don't yet know if they work - or if
> they would work better as bubble machines not spray machines
>
> But if there are any proven non-sulphate technologies available I would
> like to see the preparations for deployment in hand with supply logistics
> etc sorted out
>
> And I would like to see some vessels out there NOW putting down a few
> square miles of plastic to float on the surface and see whether the icepack
> that forms on top of it this winter lasts longer come summer.  The Alaskan
> Inuits would welcome it I suspect.  Or maybe the ice forms by freezing the
> ocean surface, and not by accumulated snowfall, so the plastic would result
> in less ice not more.  Maybe wait for the ice to form and then inject
> plastic through the ice to spread out underneath.  We need to suck it and
> see.
>
> If Russia and Canada want navigation channels it should not be difficult to
> keep them open in summer given the warmer ocean waters.  Just put the
> plastic down where you want the sea ice, and not where you don't.
>
> But these speculations should not detract from *the risk management
> perspective that reveals an urgent need to be able to deploy a proven
> technology quickly*, if/when the situation calls for it
>
> Peter
>
> [end quote]
>
> Does anybody disagree with any of this?  Can we use it as a basis for a
> plan for immediate action?
>
> John
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "geoengineering" group.
> To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> [email protected]<geoengineering%[email protected]>
> .
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.
>

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"geoengineering" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
[email protected].
For more options, visit this group at 
http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.


Reply via email to