Russell,

My comments below relate to your 'brightwater' proposal.  Out of courtesy,
I've removed the thread - so I'm not re-posting your comments without
consent.

If bubble residency times are high, induced densities can be low. If
residency times are low, you'll have to greatly increase local
concentrations to cause a globally significant, persistent effect.  I quote:
"Seitz admitted that scaling it to cover an entire ocean would be
technically difficult, not because of the
energy<http://www.physorg.com/news189059955.html> requirement,
which he said would be equivalent to about 1000 windmills, but because of
the fact that the bubbles may not last long enough to effectively spread
over large areas."  The risk is, therefore, that very much greater local
effects may be induced than is desirable, in order to create the necessary
global cover.  Not only might this affect primary productivity, but also
more subtle biological events such as migration, navigation, feeding and
breeding.  Bioluminescence is likely to be a notable casualty.  'Hot spots'
(or should that be cold spots) of concentrated treatment are therefore
likely best avoided.  The hot-spot effect is not unlike covering a forest in
a dense blanket of fog, when the local weather never naturally causes such
an effect.  I would expect the ecosystem impacts to be very significant, or
even catastrophic, especially if the treatment were persistent.

Your video and images show the bubble plumes spreading laterally and
vertically, rather like slicks.  They also show a high optical density, far
higher than I would regard as desirable in open ecosystems.  Were the
bubbles' residence time longer, the local concentrations could be relatively
reduced, thus reducing the localised optical impact.  Churning the bubbled
water into untreated volumes would be desirable, and a towed streamer design
with many small bubblers would be beneficial in this regard.  Oil survey
vessels use such a system, which I understand relies on hydrodynamic forces
to distribute hydrophones over a wide track.

The behaviour of microbubbles in high concentrations may be entirely
different to that in lower concentrations - not least because of the
limitations of locally available substances to dwell on the bubble surfaces.
I think it would be extremely brave to make detailed predictions when such a
large range of complex factors can affect the behaviour of the bubbles (to
such an extent that the idea could easily be rendered impractical).  Not
only are optical effects a consideration, but you also need to consider the
ecosystem impact of the surface physics and chemistry.  If the microbubbles
affect the movement or cycling of detritus and microorganisms, the ecosystem
impact could be severe.

I've also briefly looked over the maths you're proposing, and I'm not fully
reassured by the calculations.  I haven't checked the detail of the model
you're using, but I'm concerned by the assertion that "The backscattering
coefficient (bb) of hydrosols of micron-sized bubbles depends on the
fraction of incident light that is intercepted and returned between 90º and
180º."  - as, at high densities, there's a significant chance of
rescattering of once-reflected light.  I can't see how this has been
accounted for in your model.

Of further serious concern is your proposal to create 'icecaps' in the
tropics.  Such a localised cooling has the potential to strongly affect
ocean overturning circulation, and could possibly induce an anoxic event.  I
don't think your modelling is robust enough to eliminate this possibility.

Furthermore, by concentrating cooling in waterbodies, an intuitive analysis
suggests that a reduction in evaporation will result.  This has potentially
major implications for terrestrial ecosystems and agriculture.  Specific
research in this regard is merited.

I'm sure many of my criticisms have already been considered and discounted,
so perhaps you can fill me in?


Please don't get me wrong - I like your idea, and I want it to work.  It's
the most exciting new geoeng idea for a long time.  But we need to be honest
about the practical limitations of our predictive powers here, and the range
of factors which need further study before we can start to hang our hats on
these proposals.  We also need to make sure that we don't unwittingly
advocate a technique which could possibly cause a local or global
environmental disaster.
A

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