Hello Mike et al., This is a question which begs the fundimental question of; What exactly *is*GE? It is clear from an overwhelming number of studies that current energy policies and FF usage is changing our climate. The legal concept of 'Reasonable Knowability' is well established and should be applied to this issue. Thus, the climate is currently being changed with a high level of reasonable knowability that we are responsable. That seems to me to be what GE is! If we has reasonable knowability of the outcome of our actions, intentional/un-intentional is not relevent to the aurgument. Your question ends with "and we would not even know it?". I believe we simply wish not to know it. Michael
On Saturday, July 28, 2012 3:27:43 PM UTC-7, Mick West wrote: > Is it possible that someone might be doing geoengineering, and we would > not even know it? > > In Alan Robock's paper *Will Geoengineering [with SRM] Ever Be Used*, > posted to the list yesterday, he says rather dramatically: > > *"Even suggestions of temporary geoengineering to relieve the most > dangerous aspects of global warming will be met with so many of the above > issues that there will never be world agreement to implement. I can imagine > worse scenarios, including global nuclear war started in response to > unilateral geoengineering implementation."* > > But is it possible that a nation could avoid both the insurmountable > obstacle of obtaining world agreement, and the possibility of severe > sanctions over unilateral action, by doing it in a manner that could not be > detected? > > Given that the actual *results* of geoengineering would most likely be > lost in the noise, is it actually technically possible to perform SRM > geoengineering on a large scale in a manner that could not be detected? Or > will all the possible schemes be impossible to hide, being either too > visible in deployment, or leaving some tell-tale physical or chemical > signature? > > One could approach the question from two directions, firstly from the > point of view of the rogue nation; if you were to devise a clandestine yet > effective SRM scheme, then what would it consist of? Modifications to the > nation's domestic jet fuel? A secret fleet of spray tankers operating from > a remote base? Ballistic big guns in the wilderness? Atomic bombs in > volcanoes? > > Secondly, from the point of view of the world community, if you suspect > such a thing might happen (or even already be happening) then how do you go > about detecting it? Unaccounted radiative forcing changes? Changes in > atmospheric sulphur loading? If we get a moratorium on SRM, then how do we > "trust, but verify". > > I think the question is important from a governance and global politics > point of view, but it's also interesting as a surprisingly large and vocal > number of people actually *believe* that covert geoengineering is > currently being carried out by governments. See: Public understanding of > solar radiation management, A M Mercer, D W Keith, and J D > Sharp<http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/6/4/044006/> > : > > *3.4. Conspiracy theories* > > *One of the voices emerging in the SRM debate is that of ‘chemtrails’ > believers. This small group believes that organizations, such as > governments, are already distributing chemicals in the atmosphere for a > variety of purposes, ranging from culling the population to mind control. > We found that 2.6% of the subjects believe that it is completely true that > the government has a secret program that uses airplanes to put harmful > chemicals into the air, and 14% of the sample believes that this is partly > true.* > > The most common purpose ascribed to the supposed spraying is actually > covert geoengineering. A better understanding of what covert geoengineering > would entail, and how it might be detected, would allow a > more rigorous debunking of the various conspiracy theories. > > Mick West > > contrailscience.com > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msg/geoengineering/-/jVu4l7qvuh4J. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en.
