Ninad's missive implicitly raises the issue of the ethical difference between doing something "knowingly" versus doing it "intentionally".
Apparently, if I knowingly add sulfur to the atmosphere by plugging in a toaster and having some more smoke come out of the smokestack, that is relatively OK (and Ninad and I would both do this). However, if I put another two slices of bread in the toaster with the intent of having some more smoke come out of the smokestack, this is then evil (and neither Ninad nor I would do this). It is all the same to the climate system, but strikes our moral sensibilities very differently. On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 8:55 AM, Stephen Salter <[email protected]> wrote: > Ninad > > The International Maritime Organization is proposing to restrict sulphur > emissions from ships which will have the warming effect you describe except > in the Arctic. > > Stephen > > > On 27/05/2013 16:24, Ninad Bondre wrote: > > Measures that tackle air pollution have led to well-documented, largely > positive health outcomes that need not be repeated here. That cooling is an > "unintended consequence" of such measures is hardly news: that is why > several recent endeavours have called for tackling air pollution and > climate in an integrated fashion (e.g. > http://www.igacproject.org/sites/all/themes/bluemasters/images/IGBP_IGAC_AirPolClim_Statement_FINAL.pdf > ). > > Are members of this group considering researching aerosol removal to > intentionally warm the climate? Any current research or proposed research > projects aimed at tackling climate change by engaging in climate warming? > Do update the group if that is the case. Then we can have a meaningful > conversation about that "extensive, un-announced , un-reviewed and > un-regulated a climate intervention". > > > On Monday, May 27, 2013 5:53:14 AM UTC+2, Ken Caldeira wrote: >> >> >> Why aren't ETC and the Chemtrail nutters up in arms about this? >> >> They would rather focus on the hypothetical and the fantastical than >> focus on the climate change that modern society is today knowingly causing. >> >> >> >> On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Russell Seitz <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> So extensive, un-announced , un-reviewed and un-regulated a climate >>> intervention must surely contravene the London Convention! >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, May 25, 2013 12:12:18 PM UTC-4, Ken Caldeira wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> http://www.sciencedirect.com/s**cience/article/pii/S1352231011**007722<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231011007722> >>>> >>>> Atmospheric >>>> Environment<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/13522310> >>>> >>>> Volume 46<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/13522310/46/supp/C>, >>>> January 2012, Pages 545–553 >>>> [image: Cover >>>> image]<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/13522310/46/supp/C> >>>> Regional warming from aerosol removal over the United States: >>>> Results from a transient 2010–2050 climate simulation >>>> >>>> - L.J. >>>> Mickley<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231011007722#> >>>> >>>> a<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231011007722#aff1> >>>> , [image: Corresponding author contact >>>> information]<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231011007722#cor1> >>>> , [image: E-mail the corresponding author], >>>> - E.M. >>>> Leibensperger<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231011007722#> >>>> >>>> a<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231011007722#aff1> >>>> , >>>> b<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231011007722#aff2> >>>> , >>>> - D.J. >>>> Jacob<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231011007722#> >>>> >>>> a<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231011007722#aff1> >>>> , >>>> - D. >>>> Rind<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231011007722#> >>>> >>>> c<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1352231011007722#aff3> >>>> >>>> >>>> We find that >>>> removing U.S. aerosol significantly enhances the warming from greenhouse >>>> gases in a spatial pattern that >>>> strongly correlates with that of the aerosol. Warming is nearly >>>> negligible outside the United States, but >>>> annual mean surface temperatures increase by 0.4 - 0.6 K in the eastern >>>> United States >>>> >>>> >>>> This article suggests that "inadvertent regional geoengineering" is >>>> already cooling the US by about 0.5 C in the eastern US. Note that they >>>> find little effect outside of the "geoengineered" region. >>>> >>>> (This came out last year but I missed it then.) >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________ >>>> Ken Caldeira >>>> >>>> Carnegie Institution for Science >>>> Dept of Global Ecology >>>> 260 Panama Street, Stanford, CA 94305 USA >>>> +1 650 704 7212 kcal...@carnegiescience.**edu >>>> http://dge.stanford.edu/labs/c**aldeiralab<http://dge.stanford.edu/labs/caldeiralab> >>>> @kencaldeira >>>> >>>> *Caldeira Lab is hiring postdoctoral researchers.* >>>> *http://dge.stanford.edu/labs/caldeiralab/Caldeira_employment.html* >>>> >>>> Check out the profile of me on NPR's All Things >>>> Considered<http://www.npr.org/2013/04/22/176344300/this-scientist-aims-high-to-save-the-worlds-coral-reefs> >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "geoengineering" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to geoengineerin...@**googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to geoengi...@googlegroups.**com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>> group/geoengineering?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en> >>> . >>> For more options, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>> . >>> >>> >>> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > > -- > Emeritus Professor of Engineering Design School of Engineering University > of Edinburgh Mayfield Road Edinburgh EH9 3JL Scotland [email protected] +44 > (0)131 650 5704 Cell 07795 203 195 WWW.see.ed.ac.uk/~shs > > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "geoengineering" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
