Greg

You are absolutely right that “some of the greatest science 
efforts/achievements are driven by policy”. Anyone who doubts it should read 
Dan Sarewitz’s excellent piece in the latest issue of  “The New Atlantis” 
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/saving-science. Not only does 
Sarewitz argue that this is the case, he makes a compelling argument as to why 
it should be the case.

The idea of a “firewall” between science and policy is simply part of an 
obsolete mythology that sees science as a uniquely asocial human activity.

Steve

Steve Rayner
James Martin Professor of Science & Civilisation
Director, Institute for Science, Innovation & Society
Professorial Fellow, Keble College
University of Oxford
64 Banbury Road
Oxford, OX2 6PN
T: +44 (0)1865 288938
E: [email protected]

[cid:C51CFFDB-200D-426C-99FC-A326993E5A04]

From: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> 
on behalf of Greg Rau <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Reply-To: "[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Date: Thursday, 6 October 2016 at 07:10
To: Geoengineering 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: "[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>, MICHAEL MANN 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: Re: [geo] Saving the World the Hard Way: $104-570T, J. Hansen et al.

The rest of the story:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/oct/03/global-temperature-climate-change-highest-115000-years

"The paper, submitted as a discussion paper to the Earth System Dynamics 
journal, is a departure from the usual scientific process as it has yet to be 
peer reviewed and has been launched to support a legal case waged by a group of 
young people against the US government.
Last year, 21 youths aged between 8 and 19 years old filed a constitutional 
lawsuit against the Obama administration for failing to do enough to slow 
climate change. Hansen and his granddaughter are parties to legal challenge, 
which was filed in Oregon and asserts that the government has violated young 
people’s rights to life, liberty and property.
Hansen, who has become increasingly outspoken on climate change since retiring 
from Nasa [sic] in 2013, said he recognized some scientists might object to 
publicizing the paper so soon but that “we are running out of time on this 
climate issue.”
The courts need to step in to force governments to act on climate change 
because they are largely free of the corrupting influence of special interests, 
Hansen said. He repeated his call for a global tax to be placed upon carbon 
emissions and said that fossil fuel companies should be forced to pay for 
emissions extraction in the same way the tobacco industry has been sued over 
the health impact of cigarettes."
….

"Michael Mann, a prominent climatologist at Penn State University, agreed that 
CO2 removal will be required if the world was to avoid 1.5C warming although 
the 2C limit “could likely be achieved without negative emissions, but it would 
require urgent action, as I have argued myself is necessary.”.

Mann added that Hansen’s paper is “interesting” but tackles a huge range of 
topics and is unconventional in its use as a tool to support a legal case.

“Along with the paper being publicized prior to peer review, this will 
certainly raise eyebrows about whether or not this breaches the firewall many 
feel should exist wherein policy agenda should not influence the way that 
science is done,” Mann told the Guardian via email."

GR Hmmm… I'm no lawyer, but if Hansen et al want to submit legal evidence or 
opinion for a case, isn't this done via sworn testimony, affidavit, or by 
filing a brief? I'm also curious about the stated firewall between policy and 
science, since some of the greatest science efforts/achievements (high energy 
physics, disease eradication, modern agriculture, etc. ) have been driven by 
policy. Policy may not dictate how science is done, but it certainly can 
dictate what science is (or isn't) done. There is currently a policy vacuum re 
effective CO2 management R&D despite the best scientific evidence demanding 
otherwise. Firewall indeed, and if scientists can't/won't breach it, who will? 
Perhaps Hansen is on to something, again...


________________________________
From: Greg Rau <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
To: Geoengineering 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Cc: "[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>" 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Wednesday, October 5, 2016 8:46 AM
Subject: [geo] Saving the World the Hard Way: $104-570T, J. Hansen et al.


http://www.earth-syst-dynam-discuss.net/esd-2016-42/esd-2016-42.pdf


Abstract
"The rapid rise of global temperature that began about 1975 continues at a mean 
rate of about
0.18°C/decade, with the current annual temperature exceeding +1.25°C relative 
to 1880-1920.
Global temperature has just reached a level similar to the mean level in the 
prior interglacial
25 (Eemian) period, when sea level was several meters higher than today, and, 
if it long remains at
this level, slow amplifying feedbacks will lead to greater climate change and 
consequences. The
growth rate of climate forcing due to human-caused greenhouse gases (GHGs) 
increased over
20% in the past decade mainly due to resurging growth of atmospheric CH4, thus 
making it
increasingly difficult to achieve targets such as limiting global warming to 
1.5°C or reducing
30 atmospheric CO2 below 350 ppm. Such targets now require “negative 
emissions”, i.e., extraction
of CO2 from the atmosphere. If rapid phasedown of fossil fuel emissions begins 
soon, most of
the necessary CO2 extraction can take place via improved agricultural and 
forestry practices,
including reforestation and steps to improve soil fertility and increase its 
carbon content. In this
case, the magnitude and duration of global temperature excursion above the 
natural range of the
35 current interglacial (Holocene) could be limited and irreversible climate 
impacts could be
minimized. In contrast, continued high fossil fuel emissions by the current 
generation would
place a burden on young people to undertake massive technological CO2 
extraction, if they are to
limit climate change. Proposed methods of extraction such as bioenergy with 
carbon capture and
storage (BECCS) or air capture of CO2 imply minimal estimated costs of 104-570 
trillion dollars
40 this century, with large risks and uncertain feasibility. Continued high 
fossil fuel emissions
unarguably sentences young people to either a massive, possibly implausible 
cleanup or growing
deleterious climate impacts or both, scenarios that should provide both 
incentive and obligation
for governments to alter energy policies without further delay."


GR  A)$104-570 could prove to be a bargain or B) maybe with a serious search 
for and practice of "technological" CDR options we can drive the cost and risk 
down and the feasibility up, just as we did with the first $7000 light bulb and 
the first multi $M computer.  And why is risk and uncertain feasibility 
"unarguably" constrained to "technological" solutions when increasing the 
terrestrial biosphere CO2 sink (why ignore the ocean biosphere?) doesn't appear 
to be any non-technological walk in the park either??? Anyway, given our track 
record on emissions reduction, do we really have the option of not seriously 
pursuing CDR, whatever the "burden" might look like at this early stage of 
development?



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