Hello Andrew,
What is the best debunk website for this. I think there are about 3 or 4 peer reviewed papers that also debunk them. It is a mistake to just ignore them, which has been the case for years, since their numbers grow large and what if one of them is elected to president? Sincerely, Paul From: geoengineering@googlegroups.com [mailto:geoengineering@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Lockley Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 9:05 AM To: Doug MacMynowski Cc: geoengineering Subject: Re: [geo] Chemtrailers... Personally, I flatly refuse to engage professionally with chemtraillers. You'll get nowhere. I just block them. You can direct people to a debunk website and say you'll block them if they contact you again. Personally, I get on with many of them fine. I'll happily chat to them socially at conferences and stuff. A On 13 Nov 2017 13:16, "Douglas MacMartin" <macma...@cds.caltech.edu> wrote: I don’t know if this was a good idea or not to respond bluntly to Dane. The right answer is probably to just delete all of the garbage emails, since responding generally only brings more. Though my inbox is kind of filled with crap from these folks anyway, so can’t get worse, right? I guess some people thought that congress holding a hearing was proof that the US government was deploying geoengineering. (Last time I interacted with Dane, he edited my emails to remove my answers to his questions, then posted them on his website to show that I refused to answer his questions. And he also edited out all the hate-spewing nonsense from his own emails to make it look like he was charming and I was a jerk. Which is why my conclusion is that he knows full well that he’s making stuff up.) From: Douglas MacMartin [mailto:dgm...@cornell.edu] Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 8:08 AM To: Dane Wigington <da...@frontier.com>; ShadowsFall1 <shadowsfa...@protonmail.com> Cc: macma...@caltech.edu <mailto:macmardg@caltechedu> ; i...@garynull.com Subject: RE: Geoengineering Ah, Dane. You are an odd character. Anyway, you have precisely the same odds of exposing me for a climate engineering coverup as I do of exposing you for starting world war one, and for precisely the same reason. So, if you have any integrity left in you at all, you should actually post this on your website this time, unlike the last time where you deliberately removed any information from my emails that would expose you for what you are, and blocked me from commenting on your website to correct the information there. 1. All aircraft exhaust contains water vapour (a byproduct of combusting hydrocarbons) and particulates. In the right conditions these form contrails, as anyone with access to the internet can learn quickly (I think persistent ones are about 15% of the time, if I recall right). Anyone who thinks that high bypass ratio engines are somehow immune to this doesn’t understand contrail formation (it’s about the same as saying red cars don’t need gasoline). So, hypothesis #1 is that clouds are made of water, and hypothesis #2 is that there is some vast conspiracy involving a few hundred thousand people; I’ll let you judge for yourself which is more likely. Further, taking pictures of contrails doesn’t prove that they aren’t contrails any more than taking pictures of a tree proves it isn’t a tree. So… zero evidence presented here, lets move on. 2. People have found contaminants in soil. Ok… and the connection is? If you claim that anything found in soil could only have come from a deliberate coverup and no other cause, you should apply your own logic to acorns. I don’t know where things like barium come from, my guess would be industrial pollution, but I don’t know. So… zero evidence presented here (and I’m not sure what this has to do with anything else anyway), lets move on. 3. There are patents and previous programs in weather modification, which Dane has successfully found (they are all public, after all, so it doesn’t take much research to find them). Yup, we all agree. I have no idea if any of it still goes on in the US or not, I know China still does. (Spraying things like silver iodide to seed clouds and make it rain, I’ve been told it doesn’t really work.) So… nothing new here, and zero evidence presented that this has anything to do with climate engineering. I’m not sure what the connection is supposed to be here, or what the point of finding these patents was supposed to be, since there’s never any connection made with climate engineering. So lets move on… 4. So finally, climate engineering. The idea you appear to be trying to connect is the idea that you could put aerosols (most likely sulfate) into the stratosphere (say 60000 feet, where the lifetime of aerosols is years instead of weeks) to cool the global climate. Yup, I do research in climate models to better understand that. As do a number of other people. It’s all publicly available on my website. Some great papers came out last week, in fact, anyone can go read them and learn what I do. Not obviously a good idea, but depending on what happens with climate change, maybe it might help. And the connection with the aforementioned weather modification is… ? Unfortunately, Dane presents zero information on this and hopes his readers never notice. Doesn’t comment on the fact that the low-lying clouds in weather modification aren’t at the same altitude as contrails and sure aren’t at the altitude of the stratosphere. Doesn’t comment on how we could get things to the stratosphere (technically I think it is feasible, but no aircraft today can get there and deliver a payload, so no-one needs to worry that this is even feasible.) Doesn’t comment on the fact that contrails actually warm the planet, and don’t persist very long (nothing in the troposphere does), so that would be a stupid way to do climate engineering, so he must presume we’re both covering things up and insanely stupid. I don’t know if Dane has ever read anything on the subject of climate engineering, because you sure wouldn’t know it from the website. Doesn’t comment on the fact that sulfate aerosols, if some day someone ever chose to put them in the stratosphere and figured out how to get them there, would disperse, so wouldn’t look like a visible streak in the sky anyway, and you wouldn’t be finding things like barium as a result, since that would be a pretty stupid thing to use to reflect sunlight. Bottom line: Dane has never ever produced even a logically coherent implication connecting stratospheric aerosol climate engineering to the previous three things or to any real program. Nor will he ever do so, because there isn’t any evidence to produce. So I’m not sure what there is to debunk here; this is about like asking Dane to debunk the claim that he started world war one. Claiming that the existence of weather modification back to the 60s “proves” that people are currently putting aerosols into the stratosphere is about like pointing out that sneezing has been going on for thousands of years, therefore people are deliberately putting sulfate into the stratosphere. Huh? How, exactly, does one make that leap of logic? Other than both of them involving the atmosphere? (As I pointed out to one person, sneezing might even be more closely related, because at least it involves aerosols…) I can’t debunk anything here because there isn’t anything to debunk Dane, you know you don’t need to keep the charade up with me, since I already caught you lying the last time we interacted. The question I have for you is, what’s in it for you? Is this about your ego? Are you making money off of this somehow? Do you think it’s just a giant colossal joke you’re having, like the people who made the crop circles in England? The people who read your website think you’ve done research and haven’t noticed that you haven’t actually put together a logically coherent train of thought. If I accuse you of starting world war one, everyone knows I’m being silly, but when you accuse me and my friends of crimes, there’s at least a handful of people who aren’t able to evaluate the evidence for themselves and actually trust that you are a reputable source of information. Some fraction of the people who read your website are wonderful well-meaning people who care deeply about the planet. But some of them are the most vile hate-spewing people I’ve ever encountered in my life, and I know people who have received credible death threats. So you might think this is all fun and games, but eventually someone will get hurt; you need to start taking responsibility for your actions. doug From: Dane Wigington [mailto:da...@frontier.com] Sent: Sunday, November 12, 2017 9:28 PM To: ShadowsFall1 <shadowsfa...@protonmail.com> Cc: macma...@caltech.edu; i...@garynull.com Subject: Re: Geoengineering Yes, Brian, Mr. MacMartin (MacMynowski) will yet be exposed for his part in the criminal climate engineering coverup, wait and see. On Nov 12, 2017, at 3:43 PM, ShadowsFall1 <shadowsfa...@protonmail.com> wrote: Mr. McMartin, I recently witnessed your testimony during the November 8th, 2017, hearing of the US House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, with regard to geoengineering & solar radiation management programs. For some strange reason, all participants seemed to be under the assumption that solar radiation management has not been underway for decades. Yet government documents, lab tests from around the world, and video footage prove that jet aircraft have been spraying our skies with toxic heavy metal particulates for many years. During the hearing, you make the following statement: "there is still considerable uncertainty as to the side effects and risks [of geoengineering] that will require focused, goal-oriented research that could take decades" Yes Mr. McMartin, you are correct on this point, without question. Unfortunately, such research has already occurred in the sense that we have all been used as lab rats, as these programs have persisted for at least two generations already. The results have been catastrophic, with neurodegenerative diseases (among many other illnesses) soaring off the charts. Significant peer-reviewed literature already exists proving that aluminum (the primary element named in geoengineering patents) causes demyelination of the central nervous system, resulting in neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, ALS, multiple sclerosis, and others Your actions are allowing these diseases to be forced upon populations of the world. Their blood is on your hands. The blood of your own children, family, and loved ones will also be on your hands as you watch their health deteriorate along with your own. Ask yourself if playing your part in this theatrical performance is worth such an outcome. The following documentary, in the first five minutes alone, contains enough evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt these programs have already been deployed for some time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZfEiiKTTbw When the masses fully awaken to the damage that has been done to their planet and health without their knowledge or consent, they will rout out those responsible. You will be among them. You will be tried as an accomplice to crimes against humanity. If you do not change course and choose to admit these programs are real and ongoing, you will either go down with the rest of us as Earth's life support systems fail, or you will be held accountable once this issue gets exposed. Neither outcome suits you. Choose wisely. Brian Sent with ProtonMail <https://protonmail.com/> Secure Email. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to geoengineering@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/geoengineering. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "geoengineering" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to geoengineering+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. 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