I think that one way to get heat into space is to get it into the
atmosphere from the ocean. Creating incremental ice by putting water on the
surface of existing ice, or “seeding” ice formation by a spray during cold
periods in the Arctic, transfer heat from water to air. (Both these ice
formation technologies have a long history in the north. A warmer
atmosphere radiates more heat into space, with a temperature dependence of
T^4, where T is the absolute temperature.



Peter Flynn



Peter Flynn, P. Eng., Ph. D.

Emeritus Professor and Poole Chair in Management for Engineers

Department of Mechanical Engineering

University of Alberta

Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

1 928 451 4455

[email protected]







*From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On
Behalf Of *Douglas MacMartin
*Sent:* Tuesday, February 9, 2021 7:51 AM
*To:* [email protected]; geoengineering <
[email protected]>
*Subject:* RE: [geo] THE COOLING CONUNDRUM REVERSING CLIMATE CHANGE TO
REFREEZE THE ARCTIC



Adrian – your list of ostensibly viable should include SAI too, as was
pointed out earlier on this same thread.  In principle one could inject SO2
or other in the spring at high latitude (and indeed, that may be the most
economically viable, technologically achievable near-term approach – and to
be clear I wouldn’t advocate doing anything simply because it’s cheap,
simply pointing it out).  Re MCB, I don’t know if there are sufficient
susceptible clouds at high latitudes to do something focused on the Arctic,
vs using it to cool lower latitudes and thus cool the Arctic by reducing
heat transport – which, of course, if your sole metric is freezing the
Arctic, would work.   For any of these things one has to look at all of the
impacts, and the science is still pretty immature beyond recognizing the
overall ability to cool.



*From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On
Behalf Of *Adrian Hindes
*Sent:* Monday, February 8, 2021 6:37 PM
*To:* geoengineering <[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [geo] THE COOLING CONUNDRUM REVERSING CLIMATE CHANGE TO
REFREEZE THE ARCTIC



Ah of course, the straightforward thermodynamics of it aren't favourable to
direct cooling through refrigeration.



I suppose the only way to make it work would be to transfer the heat to
outer space or deep underground. I don't know too much about how heat
exchangers or thermal transport works, but having a read of the basal
freezing section of your paper, Andrew, I can't imagine anything
thermosyphon related would be appropriate for the Arctic.



Aside from glass microspheres then, maybe only marine cloud brightening
remains as an ostensibly viable Arctic refreeze technology? It'll be
interesting to see what they discuss in the Climate Emergency Summit talk.
-A

On Sunday, 7 February 2021 at 7:43:10 am UTC+11 Andrew Lockley wrote:

I'm unclear on the proposed mechanism, but any artificial refrigeration
simply moves heat around. There is obviously an energy penalty for doing
this - and for generating the electricity, in the first place. In short,
all the additional thermal energy from the nuclear power plant will
ultimately end up as waste heat, in the system you're trying to cool. You
can't make a sealed room colder by locking a generator and refrigerator in
it - even if that room is the size of a planet. Only by using energy to
Accelerate hear transfer to space can anything be achieved. Pumping water
through the ice can do this, as can freezing glacier bases to preserve them
and their ice-albedo feedback. .



I address some of these issues in my recent paper.



https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1674927820300940



On Sat, 6 Feb 2021, 07:54 Adrian Hindes, <[email protected]> wrote:

@Oliver although that's quite a few nuclear power plants, that's actually
not so far out of the realm of possibility.

On Friday, 5 February 2021 at 11:48:12 am UTC+11 Oliver Wingenter wrote:

It would take 20 nuclear power plants running conventional refrigeration
to cool the Arctic Ocean.and refreeze it.



<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=icon>

Virus-free. www.avast.com
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail&utm_term=link>



On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 3:10 PM Andrew Lockley <[email protected]> wrote:


https://climateemergencysummit.org/the-cooling-conundrum-event-profile/



THE COOLING CONUNDRUM

REVERSING CLIMATE CHANGE TO REFREEZE THE ARCTIC

With rapidly rising global temperatures, the harm to people and nature is
already too great. Signs that we are on the brink of triggering runaway
global warming are increasing by the day, as the strain on major ecosystems
reaches a new level of stress. Analysis shows that even a zero-emission
pathway will not be enough alone to slow warming and avoid further
devastation. This points to an urgent need to consider establishing an
immediate way to cool the planet. Is reversing climate change a real
possibility? What would it take to refreeze the Arctic and Antarctic ice to
repair the climate?



David Keith – Professor of Applied Physics, Harvard

Ye Tao – Principal Investigator, Rowland Institute at Harvard

Holly Jean Buck – Science Writer & Analyst

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"geoengineering" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/CAJ3C-06JsW0OtEti5ZfcnPe9%2BM43bB4EEa4p-PRvhr7VVdz3XA%40mail.gmail.com
<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/CAJ3C-06JsW0OtEti5ZfcnPe9%2BM43bB4EEa4p-PRvhr7VVdz3XA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"geoengineering" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to [email protected].

To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/1d332f63-84f7-42cb-91d4-afc4fa71593bn%40googlegroups.com
<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/1d332f63-84f7-42cb-91d4-afc4fa71593bn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"geoengineering" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/b7cd0c76-abfb-4e6d-a841-b2139ca396f5n%40googlegroups.com
<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/b7cd0c76-abfb-4e6d-a841-b2139ca396f5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"geoengineering" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/CH2PR04MB6936CB5C29432480E24384D88F8E9%40CH2PR04MB6936.namprd04.prod.outlook.com
<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/CH2PR04MB6936CB5C29432480E24384D88F8E9%40CH2PR04MB6936.namprd04.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"geoengineering" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to [email protected].
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/geoengineering/a01c92422b17e8ec4279a28334c453e2%40mail.gmail.com.

Reply via email to