The logs are attached, if you could not attend please review and
respond. Summaries are for the weak ;-)
Jody
jgarnett hey justin
jgarnett apparently starting on time is going to work out ;-)
acuster jgarnett, I just responded
acuster jgarnett, but let's give up on that so the meeting starts on
time
acuster to be put off until another time
jgarnett hey justin, roba is asking (from an airport) if OWS4
will use FM
jgarnett what should I tell 'em
jdeolive hi guys
jdeolive i dont know yet
chorner hey
jdeolive i am kind of putting of making that decision
jdeolive i have bigger frish to fry before that
jdeolive i would like to
jgarnett that is what I told him, and that I was putting in 2
evening as week
jdeolive but you know about my apprehensiveness
jdeolive well until fm is on geotools trunk there is not much
pushing me to use it
jgarnett acting as a router: Rob Atkinson: There is a strong
chance that conformance with simple features level 1 will be mandated for the
CITE tests, and examples with multi-value and multiple namespaces will be
included.
jdeolive i have to protect geoserver from being stuck on a
geotools branch
jdeolive thats primary
jgarnett looks like he is hoping you will need it.
jdeolive i dont think so, but cholmes can fill you in more
jdeolive even it that is the case, i can pull that off with the
old feature model i am pretty sure
cholmes Currently we are not planning FM in CITE.
cholmes But if someone else is able to help contribute to FM, we are
willing to do it.
jgarnett well we cannot go forward two many more months with out
something giving ;-) But I cannot imagine this is fun for anyone...
cholmes We don't want to go it alone though.
jgarnett well I am doing what I can :-(
jgarnett And the progress on GC branch coming home gives me hope.
jgarnett Indeed I would like to having something to show for
FOSS4G even if just a prototype
jdeolive hard to show off the benefit with just a prototype
jdeolive and you could show off geoserver complex-features if
you need something
jgarnett even with just the minimal improvements on trunk, and
running through basics I should have enough for a presentation or two.
chorner agenda items?
aaime Jalopy improvements (last topic)
jgarnett 1) code cull w/ acuster
jdeolive gc-branch? problaby not a great one without martin or
the wcs guys around
gtbot Added agenda item '1: code cull w/ acuster' to the list.
jgarnett but needed, and we should get a status on 2.2.x ...
jgarnett does uDig have plans to release another release
candidate? or are we going to wait for 2.3 w/ GC ?
[INFO] Font size is default
=-= jgarnett has changed the topic to 1) code cull 2) fc-branch
chorner udig 1.1-RC2 tomorrow
jgarnett what version of geotools?
chorner 2.2.x ... probably should release that...
gtbot Added agenda item '2: fc-branch' to the list.
jgarnett what is gtbot ?
chorner richard's toy
acuster ha! that was in last week's logs!
chorner it logs the meetings for us
jgarnett we are doomed ;-)
chorner next month it will write the code for us
jdeolive haha, that sounds very richard like
jgarnett probably writes more code then me already
jdeolive "why work when you dont have to" should be richards
motto
acuster who is running this show?
jgarnett the other thing we should have on the agenda is the IP
progress
acuster does not think we should do the cull during the meeting
jgarnett but there has not been *any*, or any progress on
anything related to OSGEO.
acuster no answer back yet on the doc licensing thing
jgarnett okay since we are 15mins in I will start ...
jgarnett can we ask gtbot for the agenda ?
jgarnett 1) code cull
gtbot Agenda Items:
gtbot 1: code cull w/ acuster
gtbot 2: fc-branch
gtbot End of agenda items.
aaime Hey, jalopy update too :-)
gtbot Logging started.
jgarnett acuster has been asking some great questions, like what
is this for.
jgarnett and the answer is often - nothing.
jgarnett So I am hoping to delete the more obvious stuff with
him from trunk
jgarnett any comments?
aaime Go for it
jgarnett problem is I do not recognize everything - like
main/modified-src - what is that for?
jgarnett :-) bonus points for the first person to answer
aaime Good question
aaime We have many relics in the trunk :-8
jgarnett last comment says filter parser code is now generated
by javacc at build time ... relic!
jgarnett well that is it for that agenda item
acuster cool
jgarnett 2) fc-branch
aaime fc = fm + wc?
jgarnett no idea
jdeolive what is wc?
jgarnett probably gc...
jgarnett 2) gc-branch
aaime Yeah
jgarnett I have tried a couple buiilds, noticed some annoying
popups again ... but have not tired it out.
jgarnett how is it going?
aaime Boh!
aaime Martin does not keep us very up to date :-(
aaime He's not only merging, also refactoring a lot
jgarnett darn
jgarnett did you try talking to him?
jgarnett email, backing out his changes ...
aaime How?
simboss he is adding his changes to trunk
jgarnett aranging conflicts ...
jgarnett I see, so things are out of control.
simboss his changes== gc code refactored by him
simboss hence the only choice for the moment is wait and see
jgarnett I see, has anyone detected a rhym or reason
simboss huh?
aaime Style? I really don't know
jgarnett can you tell why he is refactoring the GC code?
aaime He has not IM, no skype, so it's difficult to speak with him
simboss he is refactoring some code I added to gridcoverage packages
simboss sorry
simboss grid coverage module
simboss which is, in principle, fine
simboss because e is the mantainer
simboss but this will take me a bit of time
simboss when adding the plugins
simboss since
simboss he is changing some methods names
simboss that I rely on
jgarnett I see so if he waited until more code was in place, or
talked to you, the rename could of happened in an orderly fashion. :-(
simboss sorry man
acuster from his code style (which is a joy to read) he's a
perfectionist
aaime I believe he did not understand that simboss has external code
that depends on the gc branch
jgarnett so can you add the method names in anycase and
deprecate them? And promiss to remove them before a major release?
aaime So refactiong gt2 only is not a solution
jgarnett yeah, I got that. simboss probably wants to do the
refractor.
jgarnett okay well here is what we can do .. martin has been
able to show up for an IRC meeting about GC before?
acuster have you both sent him emails?
cholmes Hrm. Well can we get him to stop re-naming? Or at least limit
it? I mean, wasn't approval given to merge the current GC branch on? A modified
one, though ideal, is in danger of getting bogged down.
jgarnett Lets organize one for wednesday.
simboss I already ask him to limit renaming
simboss renaming is no big deal
simboss refactoring might be
simboss I am not here to discuss martin's capapbilities
aaime Nobody is :-)
simboss but in Italy we say that quick and good
simboss never goes along
simboss :-)
cholmes I mean, regardless of his capabilities, we need this branch to
come home now...
acuster simboss: you can't start until he's done?
simboss could you make a plugin that calls method A of module B if
either module B or method A does not exist?
simboss until coverage package is ready
simboss I cannot really do anything
simboss I think it would have been better to do this refactoring
simboss after the merge
jgarnett okay, so cholmes what can we do?
acuster a strange situation...
jgarnett this is a case where module maintainers are not really
succeeding in working together.
acuster 1) give martin his one week of vacation
jgarnett we are in a bit of tougher spot then then usual as it
is his vacation...
cholmes Recommending refactoring after merge woul dbe a start.
acuster getting communication flowing would help :-)
cholmes I mean, the point of a merge like this is to get it on to
trunk. Then from that point on time should be spent getting it ready for
release.
acuster martin, qu'est-ce que tu fais?
cholmes Doing things like refactoring if necessary.
cholmes But obviously the first step is to call a meeting that Martin
can attend
aaime Well, let's try sending a mail and let him propose a meeting
time /date ?
simboss anyway, I do not think he has much left to fo
simboss (do)
simboss I just did svn update on trunk
simboss to see where he is
jgarnett I can send the email ...
aaime Btw, if you want to access the svn commits without subscribing
aaime Nabble is your friend:;
aaime http://www.nabble.com/geotools-commits-f15589.html
aaime Last Martin's commit is a few days old
aaime Ah, so, next topic?
aaime This one has really bogged us down :-)
jgarnett I am not sure we got 15 mins left
aaime Why?
aaime Isn't the meeting one hour long?
jgarnett Sorry I am not sure what the next agenda item is
aaime Ah, anyway it wasn't so important :-)
jgarnett we do have 15mins left.
aaime Just a jalopy update
aaime (status update)
jgarnett I would like to know if a geotools release is going out
tomorrow with uDig?
jgarnett chorner?
chorner not sure
chorner we probably can
jgarnett I would also really like it if we were able to proceed
on the OSGEO iccubation process
jgarnett can you hold up your release until you can make a
geotools release?
aaime Anyway, I'm slowly bringing the jalopy maven 2 plugin to a
state where it can be used, but it will take some more time... sorry :-)
jgarnett or can we arrange monthly geotools releases or
something?
jgarnett I know geoserver is also planning a release? No idea if
they are kicking out a geotools releease?
jgarnett brent?
chorner (just left)
jgarnett cholmes?
cholmes No plans for a gt2 release...
acuster +1 for regular, chronological releases
cholmes There's maybe 2-3 bug fixes.
acuster it's done wonders for GNOME
jgarnett it would be great if geoserver and udig could combine
forces to kick a release out. I am unable to help out from where I am ...
jdeolive are you talking about gt2?
jdeolive sorry, gt2 = 2.2.x
jdeolive if so, i wouldn't mind getting some of hte catlaog
stuff into a release
jgarnett yes, brent and chorner both have releases going out,
and unless they cooperate we get
jgarnett 2 geotools releases, or none.
jgarnett and more timestamped getools jars escape into the wild.
cholmes Brent may have some time to help push out a release tomorrow...
cholmes What's chorner's timeline?
aaime Ah, there was another interesting topic for today, but I forgot
about it: continuous build
jgarnett sorry if I am ranting here ... you both have the same
timeline.
jdeolive I can throw in a geotools release when 1.4.x goes to
trunk
jgarnett and this is the chance to coordinate.
chorner we're releasing tomorrow or wednesday... we can probably throw
a couple hours at a release tomorrow around noon
jgarnett if we know there is a release going out we can help as
well.
chorner ...should differentiate -- first "release" = udig, second, 2.2.x
aaime Another urgent topic we have to face, before of later, is PMC,
we have to revitalize it
jgarnett indeed.
chorner so: we'll talk tomorrow :)
jgarnett Cool lets leave the IRC channel up, and email and we
can talk through a geotools release.
=-= aaime has changed the topic to 1) code cull 2) fc-branch 3)
PMC?
gtbot Added agenda item '3: japopy' to the list.
gtbot Added agenda item '4: pmc?' to the list.
=-= jgarnett has changed the topic to 1) code cull 2) gc 3)
release! 4) PMC x) jalopy
jgarnett take that gtbot!
jgarnett I was hoping to talk about the geotools PMC after the
GeoServer PSC process had a chance to complete.
jgarnett But we are running into a couple problems, on both
fronts.
jgarnett We should update the page, and possible do a "mark and
sweek" gabage collection run of existing PMC members.
jgarnett The easiest would be to see who is here today, and who
responds to the agenda items via email over the course of the week (MARK)
jgarnett and then send out a poliet email thanks those who
missed the mark for their time over the years (SWEEP)
jgarnett We have had a couple topics in this meeting that were
either conflicts (GC) grunt work (Release) or stratigic (OSGEO) and we have
been unable to address them.
jgarnett Does anyone have any advice on how we should proceed.
jgarnett More to the point I have had people approach me asking
if they can help out in a PMC capactiy, and I have been unable to figure out
where to start.
aaime I do believe this approach is good
aaime And that the garbage collector should be always running
aaime Not only this week :-)
jgarnett cholmes you have sat through the geoserver "process"
over the last month - anything you have learned that you think can help us here?
aaime We need a mechanism to keep the PMC sound, rensposive and
representative of people doing the actual work
jgarnett Indeed the geoserver PMC page has a built in Gabage
Collection algorithm
cholmes Um...
acuster 1) Don't Panic (2) invite new committers to be PMC (3) do the
merges then a big cleanup
jgarnett you missed a step
jgarnett 4) document!
jgarnett No I am not panicing, we have a great codebase that is
actually getting better. And a great body of committers doing all kinds of
crazy stuff
cholmes GeoServer hasn't started, so not a lot that can help. But I've
tried to push it to be formed to be a bit more immune to where geotools has
fallen.
jgarnett I would just like to be a bit more efficient.
aaime Indeed
cholmes I think we should cull the PMC though. Like remove anyone who
hasn't made a meeting or responded to stuff from meetings in the last month.
aaime Hum, I do believe we shoult post irc logs on the ml too? So
that people can have a better chance of answering, discuss?
jgarnett cholmes could you send a nice email, you are PMC and I
feel like I stirred up things enough on the geoserver-devel list in the last
while.
aaime Why did stop posting them btw?
jgarnett Not sure andrea? Was before my time ...
cholmes I'm not really sure that I should be PMC...
jgarnett I send out a summary when I miss a meeting.
jgarnett Let me be smart about this ...
jgarnett we have several very nice thinky committeers here who I
would love to see represent geotools more
jgarnett Does anyone have comments on how they would like to see
geotools, as an organization improve?
aaime Hard call
jgarnett I personally love the module maintainer focus, the PMC
thing just annoys me and I hope we can move away from it ...
jgarnett Also liked the voting thing Justin worked out for
GeoServer...
jdeolive i know this has been brought up before but a scheduled
release cycle
aaime Well, PMC is there for things that go beyond the single module
cholmes Well, we need some sort of PMC/PSC in place for OSGeo purposes.
jdeolive where releases could follow a stable / unstable pattern
jgarnett Yeah justin that would be *very* smart all around.
acuster everyone's moved away from stable/unstable
aaime I would like to see more attention to quality, but without
breaking the build
acuster better to have windows of unstable followed by stablizing
periods
jdeolive agreed
jgarnett (One thing that cory mentioned was a meeting time that
ended at 1hr, and we are 5 mins over)
aaime Would be nice to have somethign that sends mails when code
coverage, docs and the like fall below a certain level (not very high)
FrankW Are module maintainers by default on the PMC?
acuster and a release every two months (but variable for big merges)
jdeolive FrankW, no
aaime Too many modules
aaime Only a few of them
FrankW ok
acuster jgarnett, being over doesn't matter, people will leave when
they need to.
aaime Being a mantainer of a module is a requisite thought
jgarnett Not always I thought, being a module maintainer shows
great community involvement. But we have had people nominated based on
documentation contributions
aaime Yeah, the doc is a module in itself, even if it doesn't show up
in svn
jgarnett Thanks for talking about this guys, I must say I am
very excited about where geotools is at and where it is heading.
FrankW I would note there isn't a terribly high cost to inactive PMC
members. But it is important to bring the active committers into the PMC.
jgarnett But we are coders and it is very easy to put our head
down and just hack. A little attention to process should get us on the straight
and narrow again.
FrankW (at least a representative sampling if there are many from one
organization)
jgarnett FrankW, we do have some votes that need 70% of the PMC
to vote, and we have not been able to do that for around a year.
FrankW Ah, well then I guess some housecleaning is needed and/or
lowering quorum.
jgarnett indeed.
jgarnett Aside: FrankW I have almost done my bit for the FM
branch and will go back to the IP check on trunk.
FrankW jgarnett: ok, cool
jgarnett I do lurk and noticed at least one project ready to
hatch.
jgarnett any other cool stuff from the land of OSGEO we should
know about ;-)
FrankW Nothing comes to mind, though I think we should be opening up
new projects for incubation shortly.
FrankW At least allowing in a trickle.
acuster FrankW, is the osgeo lawyer likely to answer my emails?
FrankW What email address did you use?
acuster [EMAIL PROTECTED]
acuster without the --
FrankW right. that should work.
FrankW I'll try and check in with him to see if he will be able to
continue fielding questions. It was his intention to do so.
acuster okay, I'll refresh it this week
FrankW Eventually we will need to develop expertise within the
incubator to answer most ip questions without him since his time is limited.
FrankW Please cc: me on email to him if you don't mind.
acuster okay
jgarnett Okay I think this meeting is about done ... any thing
else before I gather the logs?
acuster jgarnett, what's your schedule like this week?
jgarnett acuster I lost that list of "interesting" directories
...
jgarnett I work 9 - 5 in whatever timezone this is ;-)
acuster more or less european right? it's 22.14 here
jgarnett but apparently I can work late from 5-6 on wednesday.
appetkov about tomorrow--is the geoserver IRC meeting still
hapenning?
jgarnett Or given notice I can arrange an hour to hack w/ you.
acuster http://pastebin.ca/78044
jgarnett yes, although the first is likly to be on skype (so we
can organize with simboss)
acuster first what?
simboss first meeting I guess
simboss there are two geoserver meetings tomorrow
acuster ah
simboss afaik
appetkov simboss what is your skype nick?
simboss lemme check
simboss I forgot
simboss :P
acuster someone should squat geotools
simboss simboss18830
FrankW is not familiar with this usage of the verb squat.
simboss (before the meeting ends I have question guys...)
jgarnett shoot simboss
jgarnett we may even answer ;-)
aaime Shoot, I'm about to go
jgarnett (acuster: I have culled the non interesting directories)
simboss about gc
aaime You're very optimistic :-)
simboss martin is meging on trunk directly
jgarnett some of the stuff in spike I do not care to know about)
aaime Yes, so?
simboss so would anybody get mad at me
jgarnett cholmes: can you send the mark and sweep message to
geotools-devel or shoudl I?
simboss if i start meging the plugins
simboss to test what I have to change
simboss as a consequence of his refactor
simboss ?
simboss this might imply
cholmes I'm not sure I really understand, so you can go for it.
simboss having broken builds on some plugins-modules
simboss well
simboss instead of qaiting for him to be done
aaime Mumble, can't you just merge on you disk until the build goes?
simboss on coverage and referencing modules
simboss I can
aaime Module by module?
aaime But?
simboss but I need the subversion
simboss because I work on many different laptops/pc
simboss on different sites
simboss without subversion
simboss I am dead
aaime I see... maybe you can remove those modules from the build?
aaime It' just a matter of modifying the parent's pom.xml
simboss it is fine for me
aaime So that at least other people can check if their work does not
break things
simboss I will try and talk to martin first
aaime Well, since nobody complains, I think you can go for it
simboss beause I need him to commit some code in coverage package
before starting
simboss then I can even start to mess things up
simboss (with aaime's help of course :-) )
acuster cool
aaime Sure
aaime At the moment I'm fighting with external stuff (jalopy,
findbugs, umlgraph)
aaime But I think I can help you too
simboss either everybody's happy
simboss or left
aaime A bit of both?
simboss which is the same
simboss :-)
aaime I'm leaving, me too :-)
aaime See you guys :-)
aaime Btw, did anyone collect the logs?
aaime GBot maybe?
aaime gtbot, did you commit the logs?
aaime Ah, still doesn't recognize natural language
aaime Tsk tsk
aaime gtbot help
aaime Seriously, did anyone tell gtbot to post the logs?
aaime It can do it
aaime Oh well, let's try it
aaime gtbot stop
gtbot Logging stopped.
gtbot Posting news to GeoTools confluence...
gtbot Successfully posted.
aaime Cool
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