I’m not sure I agree with the characterization of “recently antiquated” as much has yet to be done – there is currently much functionality (e.g. analytical, cartographic, et cetera) which is still generally only accessible via those “antiquated” tools. The tools have different audiences and instead of quibbling over the merits of one platform vs. another, focus should be on the continued evolution of the business processes itself and exposing these by such fashion as HTTP web resource in a manner that is transparently discoverable and integratable on the fly, e.g. discovery of temporal element and support for time-based bounding (in which case, the geobrowser should have the intelligence to then expose time controls in the UI), but also ability to discover and orchestrate analytical services in similar fashion, where the browser exposes the appropriate UI elements to control inputs, outputs, parameters and variables – and meanwhile, some logic and embedded metadata must exist to ensure that the appropriate inputs, parameters and outputs are represented (to prevent inappropriate use of the models and analysis). But again, this inherently, and by definition, blurs the lines between audiences.
Now where this comes into play with regard to WW and the specific job at Ames is another matter – but again, if focus is put on the underlying business processes, web resources, et cetera, at a higher level, e.g. web-accessible analytical and modeling capabilities, then ALL of these platforms have opportunity to continue to evolve rather than only having resources tailored to or functional within specific geobrowser platforms available. David G. Smith PE PLS Synergist Technology Group, Inc. 570.280.6763 From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tyler Erickson Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 12:41 AM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Geowanking] Fwd: geospatial software developer at NASA Ames (job opportunity) Andrew Turner wrote: Bucci, David G wrote: I absolutely agree with you … but again, geobrowser vs. analytical tool. Humble opinion, GE has “just enough” in the way of time controls to be useful, without overwhelming casual users who just want to see and understand things in basic context. Same argument for integrated high-res mosaics, 3D models, etc. It's all been very exciting to have really innovative, easy to approach, and freely available visualization tools open up the world of geodata. However, it can become entirely too easy to go down the path of complex and opaque interfaces that made the recently antiquated tools difficult themselves. Tools like GE do very well at fulfilling a "get going" with some quite complex, but very general tasks. I view improved time navigation to be an improvement to the geo-browsing capabilities (with geo indicating both space and time) rather than a characteristic of an 'analytic tool'. GE5 already has time navigation buttons for fast reverse, fast forward, play, zoom in, and zoom out, so an interface that allows a user to move beyond the temporal endpoints of their data wouldn't likely be any more overwhelming to casual users than the current UI. Where we can innovate is through open-source tools like WorldWind for specialized use-cases, on-demand embedded views depending on types of questions in GE (Brian Timoney from Timoney Group has done some good tutorials on this for querying back-end analysis tools). Yes, Brian's server integration examples have been impressive, and he has demonstrated some pretty creative work-arounds for getting user input out of GE. I don't recall him demonstrating any temporal visualizations... Is visualizing temporal data a specialized use-case? {Though a TBOX equiv of BBOX would be very useful, for those of us supporting geobrowsers, I have to admit – I’ll have to check if that’s on file with them as an enhancement request} @David - Yes, the mechanism for communicating temporal parameters to an external server is the important part. Without a mechanism for loading new data, there isn't much point in allowing a user to navigate beyond the temporal endpoints of their currently loaded data. Not saying they couldn’t add an “expert mode”, and ALSO provide more advanced features … but I understand why they don’t, given their business model, and that they’re by no means done “enhancing into” their core envelope. p.s. one thing I REALLY would like – because of how much it confuses casual users – is the ability to control whether the time slider is ON or not, from a KML feed when it’s launched. Maybe it’s in networklinkcontrol in the next KML ver … You could submit a Change Request to OGC for that type of capability in the KML. Though that's becoming *quite* UI specific for a data format. The time slider only shows up when datasets exist that have time in them. The 'TBOX' parameter idea could also be an OGC change request. It would be more valuable to have this available in any browser implementing OGC KML, rather just Google implementing it in the Google extension namespace. - Tyler From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Tyler Erickson Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 4:23 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Geowanking] Fwd: geospatial software developer at NASA Ames (job opportunity) I'd agree with Anselm, the time controls of Google Earth are pretty rudimentary, at least at this point. It's kind of akin to using an old cassette player... you can play time forward, and stop it, and fast forward and rewind by dragging the control, but that's about it. I would like to see Google Earth treat navigation in time similar to how they treat navigation in space... give users the ability to easily zoom in and zoom out (in time), play it slowly forward and backward, and go beyond the minimum and maximum temporal boundaries of whatever time-stamped data you happen to have loaded. And even more importantly, allow some mechanism for GE to send the time interval information to an external server (similar to how you can send spatial information to an external server using the NetworkLink and ViewFormat tags) so that server can respond with data for the requested time period. This could allow GE to browse large historical time series of user provided content (served from a external db), that would overwhelm GE in its present form (which I seem to do on a regular basis). Don't get me wrong, I like GE, and regularly use it to visualize temporal data. Its vary useful even with its current (rudimentary) treatment of time. - Tyler Bucci, David G wrote: Actually, you can do what your suggesting with time tagging and the time slider, though there are limitations (not sure on epochal coverage, for example). Works great for vector stuff (e.g. little soldiers marching :-), works for pixel overlays, but if it's actual imagery/photography, the delays of loading the pixels slows it a bit. Also, the new 5.0 client and server-side upgrades permit a "stack" of imagery over a location, and being able to flick through them -- all served natively from the GE server, not hosted separately as superoverlays. I don't think there's ever been any realistic effort to focus on nor "market" WW to that bottom "geobrowser" level of the pyramid, which is where you're always going to see the biggest volume ("unwashed masses" thing) ... like someone else said, Google is marketing aggressively. And now that KML is the OGC-approved standard for "earth browsing applications", and Google is able to ride that standards horse ... hmmm ... Still checking on getting a copy of the geoweb pyramid out -- checking gov't contract and corporate proprieties ... sorry for delay. -----Original Message----- From: Anselm Hook [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 2:09 PM To: [email protected] Cc: Bucci, David G; Christian Willmes; [email protected] Subject: Re: [Geowanking] Fwd: geospatial software developer at NASA Ames ( job opportunity ) Funny, google earth seems rudimentary... why can't I rewind or unwind the history of plate tectonic activity for example? Or watch the armies of man battle back and forth across the landscape of our history... It's pretty but still so young. Surprised it has such market share when world wind is open source and has more of a potential to become a truly collaborative deep-time visualization platform.... anyway... - me On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Catherine Burton <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]> wrote: Love to see that "geoweb pyramid" figure if you can dig up a copy or link. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Bucci, David G Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 10:54 AM To: Christian Willmes Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Geowanking] Fwd: geospatial software developer at NASA Ames ( job opportunity ) Not sure why you'd find that remarkable ... GE has far broader exposure, and the immediate semantic context was "general public", and "outreach". Doesn't mean they don't use WW as well, for what it's good for, best tool, etc. Frankly, we're finding Google Earth used far more at this point for general visualization in the gov't communities, as well ... I think with the strength of KML as a "lingua franca" for data sharing for the masses, and the osmosis from public exposure, CNN and Foxnews and home usage, etc. -- not surprising that GE is pressing far into WW usage scenarios. Somewhere I have this "geoweb pyramid" figure that shows the broadest usage at the bottom "geobrowser" layer, with the general public using GE/GMaps, and GIS savviness increasing as you go up the levels (and the populations shrink), with transition over to WW, ArcGIS Explorer, ArcGIS Desktop, Manifold GIS, ArcGIS Server, etc. as the air gets thinner and thinner. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christian Willmes Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 1:11 PM Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Geowanking] Fwd: geospatial software developer at NASA Ames ( job opportunity ) sounds like a great job, but remarkable that they don't mention their own product WorldWind in this context and instead GE two times?! Anselm Hook schrieb: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ GEOSPATIAL SOFTWARE ARCHITECT Title: Software Developer (full-time position) Location: NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA Want to help NASA return to the Moon? Want to build cutting-edge planetary mapping and modeling systems? Want to create geospatial user interfaces that reach millions of people? The NASA Ames Intelligent Robotics Group (irg.arc.nasa.gov) has an immediate opening for a full-time software developer to help create the next generation of planetary data systems, geospatial user interfaces, and teraflop image processing pipelines. This is a high-profile, high-impact opportunity to create software that will make a difference in how we explore space. This software will be used by NASA mission engineers, the planetary science community, and the general public, through Google Earth and other cutting-edge science and outreach platforms. Applicants should hold a B.S. (or higher) in Computer Science and have excellent software engineering and system development skills. A strong background in UNIX development and open-source tools is required. In addition, knowledge in one (or more) of the following areas is greatly preferred: - C++, Java, Python, and Django - distributed, multi-threaded and parallel processing - geospatial systems (GIS, geodesy, experience with GDAL, proj.4, etc.) - computer vision (camera models, stereo vision, 2D/3D mosaicking) - linear algebra and statistics, plus some knowledge of optimization, estimation, and probablistic methods If you are interested in applying for this position, please send the following via email: - a letter describing your background and software experience - a detailed resume (PDF or text) - contact details for two (or more) references to Dr. Terry Fong <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]>. The NASA Ames Intelligent Robotics Group (IRG) is dedicated to enabling humans and robots to explore and learn about extreme environments, remote locations, and uncharted worlds. IRG conducts applied research in a wide range of areas with an emphasis on robotics systems science and field testing. IRG's expertise includes applied computer vision (navigation, 3D surface modeling, automated science support), human-robot interaction, interactive 3D user interfaces, robot software architecture, and planetary rovers. Recent projects include: Google Mars 3D http://earth.google.com Google NASA Planetary Content: http://ti.arc.nasa.gov/projects/planetary Robotic Site Survey: http://haughton2007.arc.nasa.gov GigaPan GigaPixel Panoramas: http://gigapan.org _______________________________________________ Geowanking mailing list [email protected] http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org _______________________________________________ Geowanking mailing list [email protected] http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org _______________________________________________ Geowanking mailing list [email protected] http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org -- Tyler A. Erickson, Ph.D. Research Scientist, Michigan Tech Research Institute, and Adjunct Assistant Professor, Dept. of Civil & Environmental Engineering Michigan Technological University 3600 Green Court, Suite 100 Ann Arbor, MI 48105 W 83.6889°, N 42.3021° (WGS84) [email protected] (734) 913-6846 http://people.mtri.org/tyler+erickson http://www.mtri.org http://www.michiganview.org _____ _______________________________________________ Geowanking mailing list [email protected] http://geowanking.org/mailman/listinfo/geowanking_geowanking.org -- Andrew Turner m: 248.982.3609 e: [email protected] t: @ajturner b: http://highearthorbit.com w: http://geocommons.com Introduction to Neogeography - http://oreilly.com/catalog/neogeography -- Tyler A. Erickson, Ph.D. Research Scientist, Michigan Tech Research Institute, and Adjunct Assistant Professor, Dept. of Civil & Environmental Engineering Michigan Technological University 3600 Green Court, Suite 100 Ann Arbor, MI 48105 W 83.6889°, N 42.3021° (WGS84) [email protected] (734) 913-6846 http://people.mtri.org/tyler+erickson http://www.mtri.org http://www.michiganview.org
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