just to say, "yeah, what he said" ;)

seriously though, i have real trouble remembering to use shft+crtl+z instead of ctrl+r, it's mainly habit, but it is also the fact that i find the old method more comfortable.

the only place Ctrl+ r gets me into trouble is Mozilla, when editing an email i ocasionaly refresh the page by accident, thanks to my painfully slow connection i can sometimes stop it before it gets anywhere though :P

i'm sorry if i've missed large parts of this thread, my hotmail address is under attack from a worm, so i don't receive a lot of mail(other than "security updates") at the moment :(


From: Nathan Carl Summers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: David Neary <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Branko Collin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Gimp Developer List <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Redo shortcut (was: Undo shortcut)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:50:58 -0700 (PDT)

/me returns from the hurricane, finally able to catch up on several days
worth of email.

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> However I *love* the Ctrl-R binding, especially because it lets me quickly
> compare the done and undone versions of an image using a single hand with
> very little effort. Try to do it with Ctrl-Z/Shift-Ctrl-Z and you'll find
> that you need either very good coordination between fingers (better than the
> one I have at least) or to use both hands.

I agree.  Gimp's undo and redo feature differs from many other programs in
that when comparing subtle changes it is useful to switch rapidly between
the "before" and "after" views, while for a program such as a word
processor, that is probably not a useful thing to do.  This being the
case, this particular need of GIMP users was probably not considered by
the HIG.

Personally, I compare between the "before" and "after" by holding down
control and hitting z or r as necessary.  For some changes, I switch
several times a second, as the human eye is remarkably able to detect
small differences when they are animated.

Switching between views this fast with accuracy is simply not possible
using Shift-Ctrl-Z due the the physiology of the human hand. The optimal
hand position is left on the shift and control and right on the z, with
the finger on the shift moving every other beat of the other hand and the
finger on the control key staying still.

Here the body's natural cordination works against switching views quickly,
as the nervous system will assume that the finger on the R key and
that on the shift key should really be synchronized.  This leads to
errors. With the old bindings the natural cordination system helps to
acomplish the task accurately and faster.

> So, if it's possible to have two different keybindings for the same command
> I'd like very much to have both.

Unfortunately, it is not.  Really, GTK should be made more flexable in
this regard, but it is not a trival problem, due to how GTK handles

Since we only can choose one, it makes sense that we choose the one that
ergonomics favors.  I'm sure that in this case most usability people would
say that actually being able to use the feature is more important than
consistancy with some other apps.  Especially because this particular
funciton isn't particularly consistant between apps.

On the other hand, we could go for both ergonomics and consistency by
using MS Office's Ctrl-Y.  Note that I am not recommending it.  I think
keeping redo the way it is in 1.2 is the best policy.

> BTW, the mail program I'm using right now (Forte Agent) uses Ctrl-R to redo.

There we go, between that and tradition, we have all the justification we
need. ;)


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