Hi Dave.

First of all - because you seem to be concerned about that - I'll
readily admit, that Federicos Company is a good one. Otherwise we would
not even need to discuss this.

Second: My concerns are certainly influenced by the fact, that two of my
closest friends run a company that also does free software merchandising
and yes, I am involved in most of the designs.

Dave Neary ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> Simon Budig a écrit :
> >And what is involved with being the "official merchandiser"?
> >How would we handle other companies trying to sell Gimp merchandise and
> >want similiar exposure? Do we need an official merchandiser?
> Essentially, this is what it comes down to ("de we need an official 
> merchandiser?"). Or more to the point, do we want a GIMP store. Clearly 
> we don't *need* anything.
> Currently, there is next to no GIMP stuff, and what little there is is 
> not profiting the GIMP project at all.

At least the second part is not exactly true. The Gimp Pin at
has been available for ages and we have gotten a huge load of pins.
It actually was the first pin they did (and they grossly overestimated
the demand), cvs:gimp/docs/Wilber.svg would not exist without this pin.
At best it created a red zero for them. They still have lots available
and they don't sell. Do I need to mention that the quality is great
(silk-screened with 5 colors) and the price is very reasonable?

So now we are deciding to give an exclusive link to sourcewear on every
page and rid us of a possibility to link to other great Gimp products.
I'll admit that after your first mail I had the horror vision of a
sourcewear-logo in the sidebar and I am happy to hear that this is not
the case. However, I don't think it is OK to ignore the fact that
Federicos company is not the only good company out there.

Of course you probably did not know about Kernelconcepts. They never
approached the Gimp-Mailinglists for inclusion on gimp.org, I was very
reluctant when they asked me about it ages ago and I did never harp on
the fact that the pins have been made by them, when I handed the Pins
out freely whenever I meet Gimp-people. Maybe they should have done,
maybe I should have done. I do now, because I think they deserve to be
listed in a potential list of good gimp-merchandising makers.

> If the project as a whole decides that we don't want to have a 
> relationship like this with a merchandiser, then fine. We won't, and we 
> will continue not to have GIMP stuff for sale which will generate money 
> to pay for stuff. Right now, we're not paying for mych stuff as it is, 
> in spite of my recent mails on our financial situation.
> But as I also said, the relationship in its current state is a 
> non-starter. Federico is selling almost no GIMP t-shirts, and until 
> there is some link bringing GIMP fans to sourcewear, that's not going to 
> change. Which means we continue to sit on our high horse, and people who 
> want to buy t-shirts don't know where to go to find them.

How many queries for a Gimp T-Shirt have you encountered in the last few
years? I can probably count them on a single hand without fingers, and I
simply don't believe that the additional exposure would generate a lot
of requests for Federico and as a result this is probably not a big
source of revenue for the GIMP.

Federico, please correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that the
Gimp-Shirts are done on a transfer-basis, i.e. not silkscreened.

Having a shirt with silk-screened stuff needs big quantities and when
you are a small company you cannot afford to put that much money into a
product where you don't know if it sells.

If you're curious you can look at Petra's collection at
with a selection of silk-screened or embroidered shirts for different
free software projects. Make sure to have a look at the prices as well.
This kind of stuff only works, when you know that you sell at least a
certain amount of shirts, either to the project itself (for a booth or a
conference), or by pre-orders. For the records: Petra usually has a full
disclosure politics towards the projects regarding the manufacturing
price and the projects have a big influence in the pricing of the

> The idea of doing things this way is that it's the path of least 
> resistance to getting a GIMP store. We control the product line, get 
> regular updates on sales (we can even consult the sales database in 
> real-time), and regular payments. We don't have to worry about credit 
> cards, deliveries, customer service, stock management or any of the 
> other things that make an online store hard work.

Ok, when we want a Gimp-Store this is a big plus. I however doubt that
this results in a regular stream of revenue.

> >I believe the hassle
> >which will come up when other merchandisers become aware of this deal
> >is not worth it.
> I've talked to a few, the reason I'm suggesting Federico is that he has 
> already been making and selling high quality GIMP t-shirts for several 
> months. And why would there be hassle when other merchandisers find out? 
> None have even approached us to try something like this. In any case, if 
> it's the bother of other merchandisers you are worried about, I am 
> willing to be the front-man for this and take all such requests.

I hope I have clarified why I am concerned about this. You know for
yourself that the Gimp-Pin is really nice. And I feel bad when we are
now talking about linking to merchandise and rid ourselves of the
possibility to link to this one.

My preferred solution would be a page on www.gimp.org, maybe included as
a separate item in the menu. There we can list sourcewear as prominently
as we wish, but it would be obvious that we are in control. We would
have the possibility to link to other interesting stuff as well (which
IMHO exists!).

   And should we ever need a bigger amount of silkscreened shirts and we
   know in advance that a certain amount gets sold immediately, I'd like
   to suggest Petra / Kernelconcepts and I can guarantee immediate
   control over the artwork and the quality of the shirt.
   As in Me sitting in their offices.


              [EMAIL PROTECTED]              http://simon.budig.de/
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