On Fri, 17 Jun 2005, Sven Neumann wrote:

> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:11:25 +0200
> From: Sven Neumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Leon Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
> Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] FAQ (-: sooner or later :-) KDEification of
>     GIMP
> Hi,
> Leon Brooks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > This may seem like an oxymoron, given GIMP's heavy defacto relationship
> > with GNOME-flavoured GTK, but is there any GIMP equivalent to
> > OpenOffice's KDE integration (http://kde.openoffice.org/)?
> GIMP is not a GNOME application,

This point has been made before and I hope Sven is willing to clarify this
point a little more as I do not entirely understand his purpose in saying
it or putting it exactly that way.

People have different ideas of what it means to be a Gnome application.
For a long time the prevailing view has been a Gnome application is
an application which uses Gnome libraries and applications that are
part of the Core Gnome desktop.  In this sense the GIMP is not a Gnome
application as it does not require libraries outside of GTK.

> it uses GTK+, the GIMP toolkit. This is by chance the same toolkit that
> GNOME uses, so integration with GNOME is easier to achieve. That doesn't
> mean though that we wouldn't try to make GIMP work well on KDE.

Most mature developers recognise the benefits of working closely with KDE,
following standards from Freedesktop.org and making applications integrate
better.  A desire to work well with both Gnome and KDE is no certainly
barrier to an application becoming a Gnome application.

> GIMP supports most of the cross-platform specs that the KDE and GNOME
> people are developing to make this happen. What is missing to achieve
> better KDE integration is someone who tests GIMP on KDE, gives feedback
> and points out what's working and where there are problems.

There is the strict sense of what it means to be a Gnome application which
I described above and is what I believe Sven means and then there is the
broaders sense of Gnome applications I will now try and describe.

Some people carelessly refer to all GTK applications as Gnome
applications, acronyms dont slip off the tongue quite as easily as words
do but this really is not accurate or helpful.  (Acrobat Reader 7 and
Realplayer 10 are Gtk applications but about as far away from Gnome as you
can get.)

Increasingly there are many Gnome applications which no longer require any
Gnome specific libraries and even the concept of Gnome libraries has
changed with more and more work being done to improve Gtk instead of
rebuilding uncessary layers on top of it.  The older technical distinction
is not as obvious or as clear anymore and many applications optionally use
gnome libraries (compile time options) and can be quite different
depending on what you choose.

Gnome has a wider community beyond the core desktop applications and there
are other vaguely defined areas such as Gnome Office, Fifth Toe, and
others which are sometimes considered to be Gnome based on developers
showing an interest and being willing to consider themselves as part of
Gnome in the much wider sense.  The GIMP is sometimes described as being
part of the Fifth Toe, part of the wider community and well integrated
with Gnome.

Following the Gnome Human Interface Guidelines is something by itself
which many people consider enough for any application to consider itself a
Gnome application.

Some people think applications which use Gnome CVS, and Gnome Bugzilla,
the Gnome Translation Project and maybe evne the Gnome Help browser to be
a part of Gnome.  If a developer has asked for their journal to be
included on Planet Gnome one might be forgiven for getting they impression
they considered themselves part of the wider Gnome community.

If the GIMP developers decided tomorrow to start saying the GIMP was a
Gnome application without chaning anything else I sincerely doubt any
Gnome supports would disagree and in fact I think many would welcome the

Making a firm commitment to supporting the needs of KDE users and make
promises not to require Gnome libraries certainly does not mean the GIMP
needs to publically distance itself from Gnome.  I firmly support efforts
for better interoperability and work to keep the GIMP clean and portable.

Perhaps Sven can clarify, I hope when he said "GIMP is not a GNOME
application" he was describing it from a strict technical point of view
and did not mean to distance the GIMP from the wider Gnome community which
unfortunately was the impression I got in the past and one I think others
might have also mistakenly gotten too.


Alan Horkan

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