On Sat, Apr 01, 2006 at 04:24:42PM -0400, Roland Wild wrote:
>    but I think you have not understand my aim which was not to make noise
> but to improve.

my aim was to explain that there are many options than just voicing your
ideas here on this mail list.

this mail list used to be very alive and passionate about making

> As I said before, I'm not a developper (so I'm not able to make my own
> patches even if I would like) nor a profesional designer. I'm just a simple
> user who want to contibute at his level.
> Another thing: I use the GIMP because it's the best alternative to draw and
> manipulate photos in the freesoftware world and I'm a GNU/Linux user for
> years now.  What is done in other softwares like paintshoppro or photoshop
> (and thus gimpshop) for example does not interest me here... and I think
> these softwares meet the same problems when it is about saving screen space
> to draw (on 17" screen). So I ask you the same question: Don't you feel the
> GIMP interface may be "uncomfortable" to use at lengh? If your answer to
> this question is no, I take back my comments and I will review my own use of
> the software.

i am difficult to improve software for.  i say this because i loved
gimp-1.0.2 when i first got it.  my workflow involved the software that
i had.  me and gimp and a very small computer that ran linux ran circles
around a photoshop user, the huge (in comparison) computer that i use
now and windows.

it seems to be out of fashion to use what you have and try to determine
the reasons it works the way it does.

gimp has kept up with my needs and work flow.  due to the ease in
scripting it, as i needed to do more, gimp was able to do more.

i was actually surprised at how much i liked the new gui in gimp-2.0.
but even then, it is a lot the gtk+ developers who made things that made
sense to them.  gimp uses these widgets.  gtk+ is the gimp toolkit, btw.
using linux for years and knowing where the software comes from and who
writes it are different things.

>    What I don't understand is the maneer you consider a simple user can
> contribute to a project. Is it only the developpers who have the right to
> their software or can the users bring their feelings about the use of it? If
> these users are not able to develope a patch don't they have right to speak?
>    I respect the work of the GIMP developers creew and by propose my vision
> I don't think I work against them.
i tried to answer questions on the gimp-user list and i lurked on the
developer list for a long while.

if a user feels that making a suggestion is a good contribution, first
this user should probably look to see if the suggestion has been made
before and what happened from that.

other ways to contribute would be to translate tutorials for other
software apps (like photoshop or paintshoppro or even microsoft paint)
into gimp tutorials.  there is also the gimp documentation project, i
don't know how complete or good the gimp-help docs are -- i understand
there are some areas that could be better or more complete.

i ask the following as a simple question.  here is the background to
this question as well.  after i used the humble gimp-1.0 and had such a
great success (by working with it) i felt nothing but respect for the
people who wrote it and tried to think like they did.  now here is my
question, as a user, what made you think that your suggestions (that
were perhaps without research or similar respectful background searches)
would be helpful?  i really believe that you consider it to be helpful,
i am trying to understand the logic that got you there.

perhaps you think that the developers are paid.  maybe you did not
consider tutorial writing because again, you considered this to be a "we
hire you based on merit" position.  as you can see, i have a difficult
time building the logic that got you here with your suggestions. 

my approach with the gimp developers long ago was the same approach i
would like people to take with me when i have been involved with
something that i considered so wonderful and beautiful as the gimp i get
when i "work with it".

here is how another user contributed.  at the lgm meeting, i have no
idea where he came from or how far he travelled to get there.  after
much discussion about things, he raised his hand and said that he had
been a user for years and was really happy with gimp.

maybe you could make a web page for people like that to have a voice.
that sure felt better and i think he did enough research to confidently
say what he did.

i appreciate your enthusiasm,


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