On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 7:40 AM, < gimp-developer-requ...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> Send Gimp-developer mailing list submissions to > gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > gimp-developer-requ...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > gimp-developer-ow...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Gimp-developer digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Dockable Dialogs Should be Dockable Everywhere > (Alexandre Prokoudine) > 2. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Andrew A. Gill) > 3. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Andrew A. Gill) > 4. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Graeme Gill) > 5. a good student UI project... (Nicolas Robidoux) > 6. a good student UI project... (Nicolas Robidoux) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:16:04 +0300 > From: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Dockable Dialogs Should be Dockable > Everywhere > To: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu> > Message-ID: > <733f2c730903251516l180719d6pdb254a6c548d5...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:52 AM, drizzt wrote: > > >> A tool should work out of box and help getting the work done right away. > > But if each time you take your tool out of the box, it's behavior has > > changed, you cannot use it. So maybe you are creating a thing new users > can > > play with, but please keep in mind that there are people currently using > the > > tool !!! > > I feel justified to reply only to this one, but it basically covers > all of your email. You seem to be separating users into two groups: 1) > those who like GIMP the way it is now and do not want any other UI and > 2) new users who don't care what the previous UI looked like. And you > seem to be in the first group. Too bad, because this distinction is > incorrect. There's plenty of actual GIMP users who desperately want a > better UI , a lot of users who kind of don't mind a new UI and a whole > lot of users who don't know yet how much they will love a new UI. > > Now regarding old tool/new tool. Do you know what is one of most > disgusting things in applications like ACD Canvas that are over 20 > years old? It's the ugly way their developers never ever refine them. > Just like you say they keep all the old tools, all the old behaviours, > everything they don't feel comfortable to throw away. And it piles up. > How about "A" hotkey that is in use by three (sic!) different tools > depending on tool group? How about 3-level nested toolbox? How about > separate erasers for bitmap and vector objects? These applications > become a horror to use for both old-timers and novices. > > Now please give this a lot of thought before replying. > > P.S. Shouting is of no help in this list. > > Alexandre > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:20:46 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superlu...@frontiernet.net> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > To: peter sikking <pe...@mmiworks.net> > Cc: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU>, > scri...@lists.scribus.info > Message-ID: <alpine.lnx.1.00.0903251807280.31...@localhost> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, peter sikking wrote: > > > Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > > > >> There was a somewhat heated discussion of this thread at > >> linuxgraphics.ru forum and here are several examples from people who > >> deal with prepress work on daily basis: > >> > >> 1. Client brings an image for poster in CMYK which needs color > >> correction. Urgent work, not time to ask him to redo it. Double color > >> space conversion is out of question. So he had to use Photoshop from > >> VMWare. > >> > >> 2. You have a newspaper where first page should have a two-color > >> photo: black (C=0%M=0%Y=0%K<=100%) and blue (C<=100%M=0%Y=0%K=0%). > >> separate+ however separates black to 4 channels. > >> > >> 3. Some print houses set limit to overall sum of colors, for example > >> 180%. So if you take Cyan 100% + Magenta 100% (already 200%) + a > >> little of K and Y this will result in unnatural colors in a newspaper. > >> > >> 4. Live density control for each CMYK channel is a must (Scribus/SVN > >> has that in preview dialog). > >> > >> To me it's somewhat strange that GIMP's product vision doesn't mention > >> prepress needs explicitly. > > > > A vision is an expression of the project of what they want > > the software to be. > > > > There is choice in there, and the user community cannot demand > > that GIMP does certain things. For instance making web mockups > > (including the required html + css generation) is explicitly not > > supported. > > > > Now what about that prepress. I think it is fairly safe to say > > that scribus' vision is to be prepress-king and GIMP should watch > > it not to want to overlap too much in that department. Everything > > in the above examples that reeks of newspaper, publications or > > multiple pages is a job for scribus. They want to do this. > > Scribus is vector-based, not raster based. > > I do not believe that Scribus has any intent to be allow > raster-based editing, but I could be wrong. > > I have CC'd the Scribus list. Let us hear their opinions. Does > Scribus intend to allow people to tackle the problems listed > above? > > Or would you be able to trap the following image with Scribus? > > <http://www.ets.ru/images/pk000075.jpg> > > > The vision does speak about creating original art and I am all for > > it to bring this original art to the printing press. And not via > > the print dialog (I am also mr. openPrinting) but those printing > > presses that have operators. From the description above you can > > see what is should be like: first you create the art, then you > > bring it to the press. Mix master tape (in rgb) and then cut > > the lp (in cmyk). > > As someone who works in prepress, I can tell you that when we > take it from original artwork to press, we have to run any raster > artwork through Photoshop or a competing product. > > -- > | Andrew A. Gill To ensure continued quality of service, | > | this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA | > | <superlu...@frontiernet.net> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> | > -- > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:21:09 -0400 (EDT) > From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superlu...@frontiernet.net> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > To: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com> > Cc: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU> > Message-ID: <alpine.lnx.1.00.0903251800290.31...@localhost> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Andrew A. Gill wrote: > > > >> Agreed. ?I don't think anyone here is looking for a Photoshop clone (I > know > >> that I personally hate PS for a variety of reasons), but we do realize > that > >> it has to compete with Photoshop, and not addressing the issues of large > >> sections of the design market when your competitor does is probably not > the > >> best move. > > > > Do we realize that? :) > > > > It is true that GIMP is usually seen as to-be-photoshop-substitution > > and its maturity in various areas in fact is the reason why people > > switch to GIMP. However GIMP doesn't seem to be driven by a will to > > make Photoshop die, die, die :) > > <http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/competitor.html> > > It's a product that has similar features. It's a competing > product. > > (Personally, I want to make Photoshop die, die, die, but that's > mainly because of a deep loathing for the UI.) > > -- > | Andrew A. Gill To ensure continued quality of service, | > | this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA | > | <superlu...@frontiernet.net> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> | > -- > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:19:12 +1100 > From: Graeme Gill <grae...@argyllcms.com> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin > To: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > Message-ID: <49cabbf0.9000...@argyllcms.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > peter sikking wrote: > > > Now what about that prepress. I think it is fairly safe to say > > that scribus' vision is to be prepress-king and GIMP should watch > > it not to want to overlap too much in that department. Everything > > in the above examples that reeks of newspaper, publications or > > multiple pages is a job for scribus. They want to do this. > > As I understand it, Scribus is not a pixel editor, it is > a page layout package, rather a different thing altogether. > > So you're saying that Scribus should add a pixel editing > package to their application, so that they can support CMYK > and other non-RGB color spaces, duplicating an awful lot > of what's in GIMP ? > > > The vision does speak about creating original art and I am all for > > it to bring this original art to the printing press. And not via > > the print dialog (I am also mr. openPrinting) but those printing > > presses that have operators. From the description above you can > > see what is should be like: first you create the art, then you > > bring it to the press. Mix master tape (in rgb) and then cut > > the lp (in cmyk). > > I really don't think people working in the graphic > arts are going to want to master two different pixel editing > packages, simply because one of them doesn't support anything > other than RGB. If they're in the Linux sphere, then I guess > they need to go and look at using Krita instead. > > [ ie. handling CMYK and other colorspaces is a superset > capability, with RGB being a subset, and the colorspace is orthogonal > to the pixel manipulation capabilities ] > > Graeme Gill. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:32:24 -0400 > From: Nicolas Robidoux <nrobid...@cs.laurentian.ca> > Subject: [Gimp-developer] a good student UI project... > To: peter sikking <pe...@mmiworks.net> > Cc: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU> > Message-ID: <18890.48904.286747.696...@gargle.gargle.howl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Peter: > > Here is a suggestion UI project for training purpose: > > Right now, in GEGL, you have access to the whole 2-parameter family of > cubic splines for resampling, as well as bilinear. > > Pick three representatives, say Catmull-Rom ("lots" of halo), > smoothing B-Splines ("lots" of blur) and bilinear ("lots" of jaggies). > > (Instead of bilinear you could use nohalo a.k.a. gegl-sampler-sharp.c.) > > If you want to stick to what's already in the Gimp you could use > lanczos, cubic and bilinear. > > Now: Any location within a triangle defines barycentric coordinates, > which in term define a "blending" of the three methods. > > Construct an interface which mimicks > > > http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-photo-enlargement.htm > > except that instead of using it as a descriptive tool, we use it as a > way of "picking your blend of poison." > > Now, I don't know how attractive it is to ask people to pick a method > by focusing on their weaknesses, but it certainly is a realistic way. > > Also note that this interface would allow one to drive any triad of > resampling methods which can be compared and characterized in terms of > the three common artifacts. > > Nicolas Robidoux > Laurentian University > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:39:57 -0400 > From: Nicolas Robidoux <nrobid...@cs.laurentian.ca> > Subject: [Gimp-developer] a good student UI project... > To: peter sikking <pe...@mmiworks.net>, GIMP Developer > <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU> > Message-ID: <18890.49357.958733.880...@gargle.gargle.howl> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > Peter: > > Of course, you could also use the interface to choose between three > cubic methods, which makes a lot of sense within GEGL (the "jaggy" one > would be lagrangian bicubic). > > Nicolas Robidoux > Universite Laurentienne > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Gimp-developer mailing list > Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer > > > End of Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 78, Issue 48 > ********************************************** > -- http://www.watch-movies-online-hollywoodkiller.com
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