On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 4:58 AM, <
gimp-developer-requ...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu> wrote:

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>   1. Re: Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 78, Issue 48
>      (Hollywoodkiller Movies)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2009 04:57:59 +0800
> From: Hollywoodkiller Movies <hollywoodkillermov...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 78, Issue 48
> To: gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
> Message-ID:
>        <43e4d8fe0903261357qf24c151m7d4763a7df4aa...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 7:40 AM, <
> gimp-developer-requ...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>
> > Send Gimp-developer mailing list submissions to
> >        gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >        gimp-developer-requ...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >        gimp-developer-ow...@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Gimp-developer digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: Dockable Dialogs Should be Dockable Everywhere
> >      (Alexandre Prokoudine)
> >   2. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Andrew A. Gill)
> >   3. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Andrew A. Gill)
> >   4. Re: GIMP PDF export plugin (Graeme Gill)
> >   5.  a good student UI project... (Nicolas Robidoux)
> >   6.   a good student UI project... (Nicolas Robidoux)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 01:16:04 +0300
> > From: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] Dockable Dialogs Should be Dockable
> >        Everywhere
> > To: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@lists.xcf.berkeley.edu>
> > Message-ID:
> >        <733f2c730903251516l180719d6pdb254a6c548d5...@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 12:52 AM, drizzt wrote:
> >
> > >> A tool should work out of box and help getting the work done right
> away.
> > > But if each time you take your tool out of the box, it's behavior has
> > > changed, you cannot use it. So maybe you are creating a thing new users
> > can
> > > play with, but please keep in mind that there are people currently
> using
> > the
> > > tool !!!
> >
> > I feel justified to reply only to this one, but it basically covers
> > all of your email. You seem to be separating users into two groups: 1)
> > those who like GIMP the way it is now and do not want any other UI and
> > 2) new users who don't care what the previous UI looked like. And you
> > seem to be in the first group. Too bad, because this distinction is
> > incorrect. There's plenty of actual GIMP users who desperately want a
> > better UI , a lot of users who kind of don't mind a new UI and a whole
> > lot of users who don't know yet how much they will love a new UI.
> >
> > Now regarding old tool/new tool. Do you know what is one of most
> > disgusting things in applications like ACD Canvas that are over 20
> > years old? It's the ugly way their developers never ever refine them.
> > Just like you say they keep all the old tools, all the old behaviours,
> > everything they don't feel comfortable to throw away. And it piles up.
> > How about "A" hotkey that is in use by three (sic!) different tools
> > depending on tool group? How about 3-level nested toolbox? How about
> > separate erasers for bitmap and vector objects? These applications
> > become a horror to use for both old-timers and novices.
> >
> > Now please give this a lot of thought before replying.
> >
> > P.S. Shouting is of no help in this list.
> >
> > Alexandre
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:20:46 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superlu...@frontiernet.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
> > To: peter sikking <pe...@mmiworks.net>
> > Cc: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU>,
> >        scri...@lists.scribus.info
> > Message-ID: <alpine.lnx.1.00.0903251807280.31...@localhost>
> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII
> >
> > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, peter sikking wrote:
> >
> > > Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
> > >
> > >> There was a somewhat heated discussion of this thread at
> > >> linuxgraphics.ru forum and here are several examples from people who
> > >> deal with prepress work on daily basis:
> > >>
> > >> 1. Client brings an image for poster in CMYK which needs color
> > >> correction. Urgent work, not time to ask him to redo it. Double color
> > >> space conversion is out of question. So he had to use Photoshop from
> > >> VMWare.
> > >>
> > >> 2. You have a newspaper where first page should have a two-color
> > >> photo: black (C=0%M=0%Y=0%K<=100%) and blue (C<=100%M=0%Y=0%K=0%).
> > >> separate+ however separates black to 4 channels.
> > >>
> > >> 3. Some print houses set limit to overall sum of colors, for example
> > >> 180%. So if you take Cyan 100% + Magenta 100% (already 200%) + a
> > >> little of K and Y this will result in unnatural colors in a newspaper.
> > >>
> > >> 4. Live density control for each CMYK channel is a must (Scribus/SVN
> > >> has that in preview dialog).
> > >>
> > >> To me it's somewhat strange that GIMP's product vision doesn't mention
> > >> prepress needs explicitly.
> > >
> > > A vision is an expression of the project of what they want
> > > the software to be.
> > >
> > > There is choice in there, and the user community cannot demand
> > > that GIMP does certain things. For instance making web mockups
> > > (including the required html + css generation) is explicitly not
> > > supported.
> > >
> > > Now what about that prepress. I think it is fairly safe to say
> > > that scribus' vision is to be prepress-king and GIMP should watch
> > > it not to want to overlap too much in that department. Everything
> > > in the above examples that reeks of newspaper, publications or
> > > multiple pages is a job for scribus. They want to do this.
> >
> > Scribus is vector-based, not raster based.
> >
> > I do not believe that Scribus has any intent to be allow
> > raster-based editing, but I could be wrong.
> >
> > I have CC'd the Scribus list.  Let us hear their opinions.  Does
> > Scribus intend to allow people to tackle the problems listed
> > above?
> >
> > Or would you be able to trap the following image with Scribus?
> >
> > <http://www.ets.ru/images/pk000075.jpg>
> >
> > > The vision does speak about creating original art and I am all for
> > > it to bring this original art to the printing press. And not via
> > > the print dialog (I am also mr. openPrinting) but those printing
> > > presses that have operators. From the description above you can
> > > see what is should be like: first you create the art, then you
> > > bring it to the press. Mix master tape (in rgb) and then cut
> > > the lp (in cmyk).
> >
> > As someone who works in prepress, I can tell you that when we
> > take it from original artwork to press, we have to run any raster
> > artwork through Photoshop or a competing product.
> >
> > --
> > | Andrew A. Gill     To ensure continued quality of service,   |
> > |                    this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA |
> > | <superlu...@frontiernet.net> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> |
> >                                                               --
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:21:09 -0400 (EDT)
> > From: "Andrew A. Gill" <superlu...@frontiernet.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
> > To: Alexandre Prokoudine <alexandre.prokoud...@gmail.com>
> > Cc: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU>
> > Message-ID: <alpine.lnx.1.00.0903251800290.31...@localhost>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15"
> >
> > On Wed, 25 Mar 2009, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Andrew A. Gill wrote:
> > >
> > >> Agreed. ?I don't think anyone here is looking for a Photoshop clone (I
> > know
> > >> that I personally hate PS for a variety of reasons), but we do realize
> > that
> > >> it has to compete with Photoshop, and not addressing the issues of
> large
> > >> sections of the design market when your competitor does is probably
> not
> > the
> > >> best move.
> > >
> > > Do we realize that? :)
> > >
> > > It is true that GIMP is usually seen as to-be-photoshop-substitution
> > > and its maturity in various areas in fact is the reason why people
> > > switch to GIMP. However GIMP doesn't seem to be driven by a will to
> > > make Photoshop die, die, die :)
> >
> > <http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/competitor.html>
> >
> > It's a product that has similar features.  It's a competing
> > product.
> >
> > (Personally, I want to make Photoshop die, die, die, but that's
> > mainly because of a deep loathing for the UI.)
> >
> > --
> > | Andrew A. Gill     To ensure continued quality of service,   |
> > |                    this e-mail is being monitored by the NSA |
> > | <superlu...@frontiernet.net> <http://www.needsfoodbadly.com> |
> >                                                               --
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 10:19:12 +1100
> > From: Graeme Gill <grae...@argyllcms.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Gimp-developer] GIMP PDF export plugin
> > To: gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
> > Message-ID: <49cabbf0.9000...@argyllcms.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > peter sikking wrote:
> >
> > > Now what about that prepress. I think it is fairly safe to say
> > > that scribus' vision is to be prepress-king and GIMP should watch
> > > it not to want to overlap too much in that department. Everything
> > > in the above examples that reeks of newspaper, publications or
> > > multiple pages is a job for scribus. They want to do this.
> >
> > As I understand it, Scribus is not a pixel editor, it is
> > a page layout package, rather a different thing altogether.
> >
> > So you're saying that Scribus should add a pixel editing
> > package to their application, so that they can support CMYK
> > and other non-RGB color spaces, duplicating an awful lot
> > of what's in GIMP ?
> >
> > > The vision does speak about creating original art and I am all for
> > > it to bring this original art to the printing press. And not via
> > > the print dialog (I am also mr. openPrinting) but those printing
> > > presses that have operators. From the description above you can
> > > see what is should be like: first you create the art, then you
> > > bring it to the press. Mix master tape (in rgb) and then cut
> > > the lp (in cmyk).
> >
> > I really don't think people working in the graphic
> > arts are going to want to master two different pixel editing
> > packages, simply because one of them doesn't support anything
> > other than RGB. If they're in the Linux sphere, then I guess
> > they need to go and look at using Krita instead.
> >
> > [ ie. handling CMYK and other colorspaces is a superset
> >  capability, with RGB being a subset, and the colorspace is orthogonal
> >  to the pixel manipulation capabilities ]
> >
> > Graeme Gill.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 5
> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:32:24 -0400
> > From: Nicolas Robidoux <nrobid...@cs.laurentian.ca>
> > Subject: [Gimp-developer]  a good student UI project...
> > To: peter sikking <pe...@mmiworks.net>
> > Cc: GIMP Developer <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU>
> > Message-ID: <18890.48904.286747.696...@gargle.gargle.howl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> >
> > Peter:
> >
> > Here is a suggestion UI project for training purpose:
> >
> > Right now, in GEGL, you have access to the whole 2-parameter family of
> > cubic splines for resampling, as well as bilinear.
> >
> > Pick three representatives, say Catmull-Rom ("lots" of halo),
> > smoothing B-Splines ("lots" of blur) and bilinear ("lots" of jaggies).
> >
> > (Instead of bilinear you could use nohalo a.k.a. gegl-sampler-sharp.c.)
> >
> > If you want to stick to what's already in the Gimp you could use
> > lanczos, cubic and bilinear.
> >
> > Now: Any location within a triangle defines barycentric coordinates,
> > which in term define a "blending" of the three methods.
> >
> > Construct an interface which mimicks
> >
> >
> > http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/digital-photo-enlargement.htm
> >
> > except that instead of using it as a descriptive tool, we use it as a
> > way of "picking your blend of poison."
> >
> > Now, I don't know how attractive it is to ask people to pick a method
> > by focusing on their weaknesses, but it certainly is a realistic way.
> >
> > Also note that this interface would allow one to drive any triad of
> > resampling methods which can be compared and characterized in terms of
> > the three common artifacts.
> >
> > Nicolas Robidoux
> > Laurentian University
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:39:57 -0400
> > From: Nicolas Robidoux <nrobid...@cs.laurentian.ca>
> > Subject: [Gimp-developer]   a good student UI project...
> > To: peter sikking <pe...@mmiworks.net>, GIMP Developer
> >        <gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU>
> > Message-ID: <18890.49357.958733.880...@gargle.gargle.howl>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> >
> > Peter:
> >
> > Of course, you could also use the interface to choose between three
> > cubic methods, which makes a lot of sense within GEGL (the "jaggy" one
> > would be lagrangian bicubic).
> >
> > Nicolas Robidoux
> > Universite Laurentienne
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gimp-developer mailing list
> > Gimp-developer@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
> > https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-developer
> >
> >
> > End of Gimp-developer Digest, Vol 78, Issue 48
> > **********************************************
> >
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.watch-movies-online-hollywoodkiller.com
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